Are you questioning the power achieved on the 35r or are you questioning the amount of boosted claimed to get the numbers in his claim? I understand that you have questions to the claims & I see nothing wrong it.

I've been wanting to take David up on his offer, but I changed a few things over the winter and have yet to get back on the dyno this year to finalize everything. That will hopefully be happening on Friday, then when I get back, get on a local dyno.... actually.... David, where are you located and do you have a dyno nearby? I might actually be passing damn close to where you are

As posted on rx7club these turbos can make 500rwhp, just not at 14-15lbs. Enzo Tunings brother made around 501rwhp in his car and trapped 131mph at over 20psi.

There was another guy from another country claiming similar numbers as in this thread and went and trapped around 120mph and no one really believed his claims.

Once again, I hope I am proven wrong.

Im in Knoxville, TN and we have 3-4 dynos here in town. Stop by and I will treat you to a nice dinner also. I could talk rotaries all day every day. :)

Well getting another dyno reading seems like it will be the way to go. Gauging power by a trap speed will not give you the answers you are looking for. 14-15 psi may seem low, but I don't really have any experience with a 35r on a rotary. As I said above there is too many other factors which will result in different outcomes. Also the FD you spoke of ran those times at around 2700 lbs, because listing the car with out the driver weight is useless. The car didn't drive it self down the track, an average person I would think to be 140-200 lbs. Another thing to think about which may not make much of a difference, but this is in a 240SX not FD. I just think to prove the the claims another dyno run would be the best route to take.

Sweet! You're on. I plan on being at Deals Gap on or about 12/18. So I'll plan on heading that way that Monday. Definately cool of you David. thanks much.

-Brian

As of now that date looks like it will work. When it gets closer I will talk to the dyno owner and get it setup.:cheers2:

This is one of the problems you run into when you start comparing dyno numbers. Any dyno numbers, let alone numbers from different brands of dynos.

As an example, Enzo's brothers car was mentioned. That car has dyno charts from a Dyno Dynamics dyno that say 501 peak. Problem with that is that Enzo skewed the actual DD reading by 15% to emulate a Dynojet number. Not a problem with that really, IMO anyway, as the Dynojet numbers are the most common numbers people throw around. I have, myself, run cars back to back on a Dyno Dynamics and a Dynojet, and the 15% number is exactly what I found. Even if you use the same dyno to measure the car in question and a standard control subject, who is to say input factors of the dyno aren't being skewed? Racing dynos doesn't get you anywhere.

So what? So, trap speed then becomes the best indicator of relative power. Trap speed is relatively immune to how you get the car off the line. Whether you nail the 60 ft or ease off the line, you'll trap similarly. Since this car is built as a drift car, I would guess you'll never see quarter mile numbers on it. Just a guess.

With T3 frame GT35R. As you know, this GT35R compressor is mated with T4 P-trim turbine, big difference. Also this is bridgeport vs. stockport. And last posted numbers were done with 18.8 PSI tapering down to 16 PSI.

I don´t see problem here. Just well sorted combination...

I am with David on this one as well. You CAN run your car down the 1/4 and shift it regular on a shitty 60 foot and your trap speed will be your best. The car should trap in the 128-130 then it makes 500rwhp area. My best 60 has been on a 2.1 60 foot!!! As far as boost goes I would imagine him being closer to 20 to hit that number if not even a tad more.

Anything is possible but I never trust dyno numbers. Its kinda like going to the track, you usually leave with a slower time than you came to run. Same goes on the dyno.

Most dyno's can and are manipulated. You want a happy customer.

BUT in the end all that really matters is YOU are happy with your car. Just got to watch out claiming a certain number requires more than a dyno sheet now a days.

This thread is turning to shit quick.

If you doubt speeds as a measure of power then you have no idea of physics. You can learn some by looking at my page, use proper gear and you will see direct correlation with "terminal speed" and "power" or lack of power in some peoples cases :)

I for one accept dynapack (and you rear hub power result), they are one of the best dynos period to use in the common battler spec domestic person "off the street general public" alternatives. if you run it at 1.00 TCF then what it gives you is what you have. In my experience if you want to guess your engine power you ONLY use a TCF of around 8% *little more* when you apply this to proper physics *again see my web page* you will see that if you are honest (weight measure) and (engine power estimate) then YOU WILL EQUAL the theoretical "mph" terminal speed target at std temp and pressure conditions.

But hey I only do this everyday and teach it for a living as well :seeya: it helps to have the best measuring gear in the world and an education to make the most use of it :001_005: when you tie it all in together you see that lots of stuff makes perfect sense in dyno land and in reality land :001_005:

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

Hey I will honestly say that you all definitely know more than me, but still how is trap speed going to determine how many pounds of boost he is using to make these claimed numbers. I am aware that dyno's can be fudged & I understand that there may be questions to the claims by another member. I just figured if Mr. Jerome was going to pay for Dyno time, then going to a neutral / unbiased shop to make a run for some results, where the boost levels can be better monitored. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too trusting & just taking the info provided by the OP as correct.

We do dyno at a neutral/ unbiased shop. We use Slowmotion Motorsports dyno. Slowmotion tunes many cars but specializes in hondas, and could care less about rotaries. What happens is we go to there dynos, throw the car on, tune, and then pay them. Defined no longer has there own dynos, so we use there dyno's or another shops.

Well with all said I respect the car & the work involved in the build. I'll leave the rest to the professionals.

Honestly you don't have anything to prove to any cock suckers on the internet, if they don't believe your dynapack result and want to cast aspersions then its a reflection of their lack of ability/and real world knowledge (not googled or forum'd shit) nothing more.

It's a sweet car with great power :auto:

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.:dunno:

First, I'm curious to what you're referring to when you say clearly visible in one engine bay pic?

For me, I usually see it as the other way around. My favorite example is the guy that made 437rwhp on a dyno-jet with a GT42R and 21psi....... think about that for a minute. I feel that there is ALOT to be made.... or in most cases lost, because people don't know what they're doing when it comes to tuning. I believe this is where alot of people get stuck with the "normal." Most REW twins seem to land between 350-360 and occasionally with a touch more boost, a little more timing, a little less fuel will get upwards of 380. In my case, there is all that plus the most effiecient engine I could build, big exhaust, short intercooler piping, small core.... it netted me 405rwhp on dyno-jet. Take the myriads of GT35R guys out there running very little timing, 10.5:1 afr's making around 4-425. Lean it out a lot, like a full point, add some timing, reduce the EMAP, and see what happens. An extra 25% hp I don't think is outrageous.

This is also a 1.0 A/R snail correct?

So what's you're plan when I get into town David? Hit up a dyno-pak and put that correction factor in to see where we land? I wouldn't be opposed to going to a drag strip either. I warn you though, I've never once drag raced so be prepared to laugh your ass off:biggthumpup: You sound like you have a cery good grasp of the different dyno's and how they measure everything, we'll have to chat about this in great depth. I just accepted that different tools measure things differently and left it at that as there was so much contradicting info on the net when I was looking into it years ago.

I figured we would go to the shop where I dynoed my fd. It is a dyno dynamics dyno. He can give us the "true" numbers then the adjusted numbers "True Xs 1.16"(16% correction factor). Im no expert on dynos, not by any stretch or do I study them. However, it is common knowledge that Dyno Jet dynos typically show 15% higher numbers than a Dyno Dynamics dyno with the original software. After a quick search (google), I found a post saying that the shop the OPs car dynoed at reads roughly 4% higher than a Dyno Jet(this coming from the shop itself). So that is a 19% correction over what a Dyno Dynamics(heartbreaker dyno) reads.

I hope when you meet me you arent expecting some genius automotive mind or something. Im very comfortable in what I do and focus on my business and keeping customers happy. Im not out R&Ding and trying to push the envelope. I know a decent bit about fds and how to keep them on the road, that is what I do. I dont pretend to have knowlege of something when I do not. My knowledge and info comes from real world experiences and not a class room and definitely not theories.

I know you probably wonder why I would make the comments I did in this thread and in yours. To me the numbers dont add up, not at the boost levels that are claimed anyways. There is one other person that has claimed 400rwhp on stock fd twins(truly stock twins) and he is the record holder for fastest times ever. 10.9 at 126 and that was with 402rwhp at roughly 19psi.

The drag strip is most accurate indicator of HP. We can race dynos all day, but the drag strip tells the story. If you know the weight of the car and the MPH it traps the power becomes pretty clear. Especially on a quick spooling setup with a broader power band, they will often trap slightly higher than another car with same peak power but laggier response.

Im not saying your car doesnt make 400rwhp or the OPs car doesnt make 5xx at 15lbs, I just want to see what happens when the cars go to a different dyno or run at the drag strip. If Im wrong I will be the first to admit it and gladly post it here for all to see or wherever else.

I dont make my living doing this work anymore, I do still make money but I keep doing it because I love FDs. I just try to keep as many FDs on the road as possible.

Also, I highly doubt the dragstrip will be open. We have an 1/8 mile local that tries to stay open on weekends throughout the winter but weather rarely allows it.

Logan forgot to log out on my computer, FDwarrior.

There is something done to my engine that most people would never think to do, and is clearly visible in the pics. There are many things done to my engine that most people would never think of, none of which are foreign power adders just things in the build. I am also using a 1.00a/r turbine housing.

Once again I can't wait to go to the drag strip. I would also not require anyone to pay for my runs just to prove the many years of R&D behind the defined engines.

This has also never been done before by a long, long, long shot. Even more power and torque on page 2.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ad.php?t=12767

This is the shop owners personal car, much of this knowledge went into building the engine in my car. This engine makes about basically the same power as full blown p-ports, from semi-p ports. When you build the most efficient n/a engine that knowledge transfers to building the most efficient turbo engine, thus my power numbers on super low boost. The numbers don't add up on this 20b to many of the big hitters, but what does that mean?

I also don't know how my car in particular will get an accurate power reading from the drag strip. There is no arguing physics, but we are talking about a perfect world scenario. A 400whp FD will not spin 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear all the way through(I had one before this car). My car can spin tire all the way through 3rd, because it weighs 2520lbs. I know some wheel spin off the line will not affect the mph, Im talking about spinning half way down the track and letting out of it. Im still going to go to the track any ways, hopefully with some 10.5 inch drag slicks.

I made my previous post under logan's log in, did not see my computer saved his info for automatic log in.

I will say this:

I have been around for a while and seen alot of tuners work. Very very few people I've met in my time in the rotary game were as well sorted, hard working and knowledgeable as Logan. Extremely thorough in all aspects of his job.

I'm not blindly saying that whatever comes out of that shop is 100% legit (although after my experience there I have no reason to believe otherwise) I'm simply saying that if anyone's capable of exceeding "the norm" in any application - it is Defined Autoworks.

I don't doubt the numbers this car makes. But I would like to see drag times simply out of pure enthusiasim :lol:

EDIT: And I see your secret mod hiding in that picture. Snowbrush hood props are good for an extra 10% to the hubs any day of the week!

Look mate, MOST of the numbers dyno's punch out are total bullshit! :lol:

I say again, you apply physics as applied to hundreds! of legit cars as listed on my page and you will see (as you are saying) that by some way that the estimated BHP *engine power* NEVER corresponds to the mph it achieves over the last 66ft of a 1320ft acceleration test :nopity:

Test a car in std temp, pressure day and show me the "mph" and I will believe that far more than most other forms of evidence. This is why I have high precision corner scales, and a $30k worth of Race Logic VBOX testing equipment. Also good to apply other very basic testing procedures such as in gear 90-140kmh test (3rd) and other more std tests which eliminate shifting excuses and launching etc etc like 100 to 200kmh or your backwards english imperial 60-130mph equivalents .......

It really does separate the bullshit for the facts!

http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-ii...ing-tuning.htm

On the DynoDynamics (in NORMAL MODE! not skewed like you cunts do to match optimistic dynojet guesses!) I tested dozens of cars and they put out stupidly high figures! then test the REAL power as delivered to the real wheels on my VBOX and self made forumla and its always around 13% LOWER!!!!! apply my well researched guess to estimate the legitimate engine power and put it into many proven forumlas (that have been used to check hundreds of legitimate supercars!) and by some lucky hand of god! the NUMBERS ADD UP!.

I have published a ton of this information of proper testing here> for anyone bored to read it > http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...=VBOX#p2345194 Mountains of cars from ALL genera, see how you measure up and what "rear wheel HP dreams you are putting your faith in!" :smash: :sifone: :lol: :bigear: :o13: :icon_tup: :driving:

p.s. (ref VBOX tests of American Ferrari F40 I got done and acquired actual corner weight check after test) There are some great comparisons there from stuff I know intimately well (Ferrari F40 for example and my own car) if you get yourself a simple VBOX consumer range item, you can quickly and easily do any in gear acceleration tests to compare yourself to very well known factory cars. One you will see on that page is a basic 60mph to 85mph (5000rpm to 7000rpm) power band check *ironically identical for both cars gearing wise so its a great comparo. American Ferrari F40 = 2.10 seconds V's mine on 18psi at 2.19 seconds (and my car being 100kg lighter in this test) you do the math lol at guessing the power of each car :) I currently run 1.52kg/cm or around 21.6psi boost pressure, that should be enough to not only beat the American F40 I have first hand data on but also its faster Euro cousin that is closer in weight to my Mighty RICESP Mazda RX7 :) and it WILL trap near 130mph in an old school 1320ft test......... if its got the power to beat all these other incremental measures. My heap of shit is 1320kg when tested and it "only" has just under 500 genuine engine donkeys under the hood! Some other peoples cars with OVER 600bhp and weight near 1100kg should do almost 140mph by comparison ............... but they NEVER do and always have an excuse to follow as well ironically LOL.

Don't worry folks, Im going to go to the track when it's not winter. Also for "the thing" follow the intercooler pipes, and look at what parts should not go together. You should be stopping at the upper intake manifold. It's the small details on every part that count. Also it's all fine on my dyno results not being legit because I guess now no dyno is legit. I do however question why some people can shit out power numbers, like some of the three rotors on the other site and no one thinks twice. I do believe this thread has accomplished it's goal, advertisement. Any one getting a car built by a shop want's to see dyno results, any one who tries to argue any different is full of it. The only thing most of the power guys care about is a dyno chart. Slowmotion drag races as well so I could grab some of there slips, and compare them to that car's dyno number. I could show how accurate the dyno is by using Slowmotion's mph in the 1/4 to that same car's dyno chart. Im also going to use this thread as a build thread, so more to come in the future. This car ultimately is a road course car, so pics will be updated as events happen.

Don't take my posts the worng way, I'm a big fan of you boys and hope you keep on it :party:

Given you life in a hic town and have heaps of testing opportunities I'd love it if you asked for Christmas to get a Race Logic Performance box, I'd love to share some actual figures with some capable rotary runners around the world ;)

I'll post up some links to very interesting cars that have been tested if you care to see them as well so you have some reference points of what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDOqS...layer_embedded < what 129mph in real street test looks like 1.5bar. VBOX proven!

With your level of power it, Should easily do over 200mph too lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8yZ0...eature=related *we want VBOX proof hahaha* I have of mine but I'm not about to post it on the internet like these idiots :)

I was actually not responding to your post, you have been cool in this whole thread. I know you are not here trying stir things up. I would love to get a race logic, it would come in handy when the car starts circuit racing this year. My next hill is down force and more chassis development. Until I can create a chassis that will use the power, I will probably be running around 400hp. I have not done much research but can you put yaw and pitch sensors to the race logic?

Answered my own question. Looks like the vbox will give me all of the info I need. I figured that you would need external sensors going to a computer to display x/y line graphs of the cornering g's. Knowing the cornering g's is good, but knowing at what point they happen, when, and how long is even better.

If I can be of any help at all please e-mail me peter@riceracing.com.au

There is a VBOX USA site, I'll find it and post a link for you. You will love it, the have new circuit analysis tools which is right down your path for what you want to do.

http://www.vboxusa.com/performancedrift/

VBOX forum is o.k. but I have not visited it for a good while.....

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/forum/index.php

The pro stuff is here........ but you better sit down when you request prices!

http://www.velocitybox.co.uk/ > products > http://www.velocitybox.co.uk/index.p...s-data-loggers

Laughing my ass off. The snowbrush is a very well kept secret. FDwarrior uses it for battle, and releasing powers. lol. Thanks for the kind words Classic :) It was fun to meet you as well!

Very interesting info Rice :) I smiled when reading about the F40 data results. That car has always been something I take notes from. One day it would be nice to own one. Looks like a Vbox is a great device. I remember pricing the racelogic.... and yeah I sat down pretty quick ;) lol

so 1143kg. My SP (though a road going set up) is 1216kg with about 30lt or 20kg of fuel on board.

Keep in touch will be great to keep up with how this exceptional car goes ;)

Many years ago I sold as a group buy *special 13B* programming over on the gay forum for a Race Logic Traction Control (Group buy). I run this in my own car and it would be wheel spin hell without it (1st and 2nd just torches the 255 semi slicks I run on the back and that is with top shelf Ohlins suspension. I have proven this system over many years (traction control) and allot of my customers around the world run my programming in their TC units on 4 injector twin rotor cars.

It will make your thing sound like an old F1 car! and the drive out of corners is amazing! I leave my car now on 1.5bar boost and let the TC simply control the power rather than using staged boost control which is far slower and much less precise :hurray:

Highly recommend it especially for a track type person like yourself ;)

A little off topic but I'm sure you will love this...........

So who has watched Hot Version Vol 107 yet? *you can youtube it*

Very interesting seeing all the tested weights, boost pressures, top speeds on back straight! and claimed power levels :shock:

Excellent spread of cars and configurations :wink: Nice typo of the RE Amemiya car running a 4.3 rear diff when it has a 4.7 in it lol, but otherwise nice production.

RE Amemiya car
193.064kmh
twins @ 1.00kg/cm 402ps
1145kg

Famspeed
189kmh
twins @ 1.3kg/cm 499ps *where did the 100ps go?*
1153kg

R-Magic drift car
200.93kmh
T04Z 1.4kg/cm 580ps (sequential dog box)
1126kg

Domar spec drift
190.375kmh
T88 1.35kg/cm 570ps (sequential dog box)
1133kg

To pick the most exciting cars, interesting to see dyno dreams don't match with reality, very cool to watch the 5 lap race and see the 400ps twins car keep right up to the 580ps car! (within 1 car length along whole back straight up to 200kmh lol)........ guess who won?

Here is a list of very well known cars and their top speeds on the back straight at this track...
2007 17th Annual Revspeed Super Battle at Tsukuba Circuit

***NOTE*** ITS FUNNY HOW ~600PS Nissan's (M speed, Best Motorsports, Garage Ito) that weigh much more are 20+kmh faster lol (and that is with larger frontal area, higher drag too)!!!! I do have ALL of these cars on video along with detailed specs of the all as well ;)

* 1st place- #13 M-Speed R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 55.23sec, Top Speed: 227.282 km/h)
* 2nd place- #1 Garage HRS SUN Auto Cyber Evo CT9A Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 55.864sec, Top Speed: 220.678 km/h)
* 3rd place- #22 Pro-Staff R Magic FD3S Mazda RX-7 (Best Lap: 55.947sec, Top Speed: 217.742 km/h)
* 4th place- #12 Nagisa Auto R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 56.510sec, Top Speed: 227.082 km/h)
* 5th place- #16 Kurumakobou Decide R33 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 56.630sec, Top Speed: 233.615 km/h)
* 6th place- #14 Garage Kagotani R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 56.833sec, Top Speed: 227.416 km/h)
* 7th place- #31 Autobacs ASM Honda S2000 (Best Lap: 57.398sec, Top Speed: 188.055 km/h)
* 8th place- #18 Best Motor Sports R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 57.422sec, Top Speed: 220.994 km/h)
* 9th place- #15 Hosaka Tuning Factory R33 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 57.504sec, Top Speed: 224.346 km/h)
* 10th place- #17 Keiyo Jiko R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 57.658sec, Top Speed: N/A)
* 11th place- #3 Jun Automechanics CT9A Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 57.824sec, Top Speed: 211.640 km/h)
* 12th place- #19 Auto Gallery Yokohama R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 58.081sec, Top Speed: 223.8
* 13th place- #21 Garage Ito R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 58.282sec, Top Speed: 216.650 km/h)
* 14th place- #5 Varis CP9N Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 58.456sec, Top Speed: 211.102 km/h)
* 15th place- #4 Stillway CT9A Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 58.484sec, Top Speed: 204.468 km/h)

All this talk about crazy acceleration almost had me talked into a turbo, but I keep reminding myself that I like keeping my apex seals in the grooves. I don't know enough about turbo tuning to be anything but dangerous (to my engine).

Nice numbers, keep up the good work.

Once you go turbo you NEVER go back to NA unless its in a go cart and has 3 or more rotors :rofl:

It's not that hard, but then again you need to have a good handle on what your doing like these boys in this thread from the given shop. A great example of how not to do it can be searched under BDC :o13:

The japanese time attack circuit is insane. I think some of those garages over in japan spend tons of cash to be the fastest around tsukuba. Im not sure what dyno's are the most used in japan.

Famspeed exclusively use dynapack (499ps) < is corrected to engine power using a 1.15TCF here is there link (use translator to read it).http://www.famspeed.co.jp/mnt/power/index.html

All the others use Bosch dyno's mostly that do coast down (to establish transmission/drive and tire losses) and thus they derive an engine power reading, as this is the std used in Japan when comparing penis size, sorry I mean engine power, they do not talk in rear wheel power at all.

Their 2011 set up is Peripheral Ported T51R running 1.48kg/cm boost and 607PS *you will find photo's of the housings etc, just need to search around and join the dots lol*

Defined Autoworks..Highly recommended for all your Rotary performance mods.


Www.GoopyPerformance.com

After a massive forum blitz .......... where is the updates on the worlds best GT35R 13B????????

How you run it yet with a VBOX? like to see some real world figures from this beast :icon_tup:

reading a thread like this confirms that i am in the right place ...... thank for sharing.