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-   -   Overheated on track - now what? (https://rotarycarclub.com/showthread.php?t=13853)

vex 04-24-2011 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 147437)
I haven't thoroughly inspected the other lines but they seem brittle as hell. What are these things made out of? What should I use to replace them?

You can make your own I believe out of PTFE, but I'd have to double check to make certain. There's a few write ups floating around about it. You could also order from Malloy and pick up some factory ones which are pre-formed for proper installation.
Quote:

Nope, never saw a reason as the engine was stock and I assumed the oil injection system was working just fine.
What's that adage about assuming...?

infernosg 05-02-2011 08:02 PM

Starting pulling the engine apart and found some more interesting things. Notice all the oil buildup. I think there was something seriously wrong with the front rotor/housing/iron - this thing is nasty.


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_7...-26-40_629.jpg


Here's a picture of the auxilliary port sleeve for the front rotor (far upper right port in the previous picture). Again, note the oil buildup.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_7...-28-08_459.jpg


Now here's the rear sleeve. Notice how this one is basically spotless but there may be a reason for that. When I tried to turn the actuators the drive the sleeves I could not get the rear to move AT ALL. It doesn't seem like it has moved in a while.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_7...-28-25_313.jpg


Now some spark plugs. First picture is the front rotor and the second is the rear. It may be hard to see but the plugs for the first rotor are noticeably "wet" while the plugs for the rear rotor are dry. Looks like oil to me.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_7...9-30-14_77.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_7...-30-59_350.jpg

vex 05-02-2011 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 148207)
Starting pulling the engine apart and found some more interesting things. Notice all the oil buildup. I think there was something seriously wrong with the front rotor/housing/iron - this thing is nasty.


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_7...-26-40_629.jpg

That looks about normal for a long life engine. Maybe you should clean it more often :p
Quote:

Here's a picture of the auxilliary port sleeve for the front rotor (far upper right port in the previous picture). Again, note the oil buildup.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_7...-28-08_459.jpg
Yes. That however, is not normal. My thought would be that the oil from the broken feed line has weeped into the gasket and soaked through that and has been deposited over time into the back wall portion of the sleeve. Something to consider is that the same debris that caused that build up also probably went into your combustion chamber.
Quote:

Now here's the rear sleeve. Notice how this one is basically spotless but there may be a reason for that. When I tried to turn the actuators the drive the sleeves I could not get the rear to move AT ALL. It doesn't seem like it has moved in a while.
That is an easy fix. Mine did the same thing until I broke it loose. Use some penetrating oil (pb blaster and the like) on the internal chamber (you'll need to spray it into the hole) and on the shaft, let it soak in over night. Then chuck the actuator in a vice or secure it to a wood block and push the shaft to break any of the other debris. Flush with more penetrating oil. Once cleaned lobe some lithium grease onto the shaft and work it into the chamber via the shaft (don't try shoving it into the hole). That should free the actuators right up.

vex 05-02-2011 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 147337)
Well any doubts the engine is fried have now been eliminated. Started the car after work and even though it started right up it sounded like it was only running on one rotor. Eventually the engine caught itself and I was able to drive home. Got home, shut it down and changed, came out to start it to depressurize the fuel system and it absolutely would not start. It took me 30 minutes to start it again and the same thing happened - started on one cylinder but after a few revs and about 30 seconds the second rotor kicked in. Pulled the fuel pump connection and let it stall out and started the teardown. Can't wait to see what exactly happened.

This doesn't make sense... :lol:

infernosg 05-03-2011 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vex (Post 148220)
That looks about normal for a long life engine. Maybe you should clean it more often :p

How does an engine coked in oil look normal?! 105k miles is also hardly what I consider a "long life engine". Hell, I've only put 5k miles on it in nearly two years of ownership. This also isn't a show car. As long as it (was) running I didn't really care how clean it was inside or out.
Quote:

Originally Posted by vex (Post 148220)
That is an easy fix. Mine did the same thing until I broke it loose. Use some penetrating oil (pb blaster and the like) on the internal chamber (you'll need to spray it into the hole) and on the shaft, let it soak in over night. Then chuck the actuator in a vice or secure it to a wood block and push the shaft to break any of the other debris. Flush with more penetrating oil. Once cleaned lobe some lithium grease onto the shaft and work it into the chamber via the shaft (don't try shoving it into the hole). That should free the actuators right up.

This would be a good idea if I intended to keep the 6 port engine. The actuators themselves are fine, the front rod is stiff (LOL) but moveable while the rear is completely seized.
Quote:

Originally Posted by vex (Post 148221)
This doesn't make sense... :lol:

You know what I meant! This is my first rotary so I'm still used to diagnosing issues in piston-engine-speak.

vex 05-03-2011 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 148249)
How does an engine coked in oil look normal?! 105k miles is also hardly what I consider a "long life engine". Hell, I've only put 5k miles on it in nearly two years of ownership. This also isn't a show car. As long as it (was) running I didn't really care how clean it was inside or out.

Tongue, meet cheek.

infernosg 05-04-2011 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vex (Post 148261)
Tongue, meet cheek.

Don't you have a RX-7 to work on?

Anyhow, started pulling the engine apart today. Only got to the intermediate iron before I decided to stop so I could clean the garage to better organize parts. Only thing I found I can't explain is pictured below:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_7...-56-08_863.jpg

Any explanation? Aside from that everything looks good - really good, but soaked in oil...

RETed 05-04-2011 06:25 PM

That's typical.
It's actually aluminum oxide.
It's galvanic corrosion due to having two dissimilar metals (steel side irons + aluminum rotor housings) and an electrolyte (coolant) - that's basically a battery.


-Ted

infernosg 05-04-2011 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 148469)
That's typical.
It's actually aluminum oxide.
It's galvanic corrosion due to having two dissimilar metals (steel side irons + aluminum rotor housings) and an electrolyte (coolant) - that's basically a battery.


-Ted

Gah, of course! In my search to find something I've managed to forget even the most basic material science. So what exactly should I be looking for given the circumstances? I have a couple other pictures of the rear iron and rotor housing but nothing looks out of the ordinary (to me).

RETed 05-04-2011 07:41 PM

Check the inner water jacket o-ring.
Look for discoloration or distortion.
Check the area of the side iron on both sides of the water jacket o-ring groove - look for discoloration.
The inside (toward the combustion chamber) edge area should be a uniform black - if there is a "clean" area, that could be signs of water leaking into the engine.


-Ted

infernosg 06-09-2011 12:00 PM

Tyler already knows about this but I figured I'd update the thread with the conclusions. FINALLY tore the engine down completely last night. Go figure the failed part is the last exposed. Failed coolant seal like I suspected on the front iron although the extent of the damage is more than I ever expected. Looks like I have a junk iron now...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...-22-46_454.jpg

A closer look:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-K...-22-57_857.jpg

I'm unsure whether this is the cause of the effect of the overheating event. I plan on returning to the track after the rebuild but I'm now worried about overheating. An upgraded radiator and all new hoses will be installed and I'm also removing heater core so there's no place for the coolant to go except the engine or the radiator. I'd love to underdrive the water pump but there's no way to do that without also underdriving the alternator.


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