I'm planning on plumbing mine into the DP too, but I've been putting it off because it seems like such a huge project and probably be a PITA to do with a short runner manifold.

Good work on the manifold btw!

Those should be interesting pictures. :suspect:

Good luck with the re-route. I bet it won't be as bad as you think. What size is your downpipe?

:naughty: :lol:

Looks good Mike! I <3 Pics

Hey John..... Lets put it this way.... the mani Mike and I built for my car is almost a carbon copy of the one we built for his.... difference beeing because of the motor mounts and firewall placement... fitting a 4" DP in my FC was a MOTHERFUCKER...... but I built a LimeRockPipe to recirc both dump tubes back into the DP.... while it wasn't fun, it took about a day to build to use it for like 20 minutes..... hopefully I can extend that this year :rofl:

So.... planning on taking this to LRP eh? LOVE IT!!! That should make up for the lack of rotaries on the track this past year :smilielol5:

:smilielol5:

Yeahhhhh this year was pretty weak for track events. I do have a Thunderbolt day planned for Nov 10th BTW. I have a trailer now, so LRP is even more tempting now!

DO IT! I need a trailer in a bad way.... and my Jeep might be down for next years event which is going to be no fun..... I'll let you know when it is next year, if Miked is planning on coming up, we'll have to get a hotel somewhere.
I was talking with Rich last night and he mentioned the NJMP gig in a few weeks.... I may blast down to hang out, we'll have to see, I doubt I'll be able to find the time but I would like to..... This event 2 years ago is when my wheel bearings EXPLODED on me :rofl:

Thanks buddy. I left out what you requested :suspect: :lol:

Yea that DP was TIGHT.

And if someone had let the limerockpipes fully cool while clamped up, we wouldn't have had to use the acetylene torch to install them :rofl:

Although I must admit it was pretty cool watching them grow right up to the mating flange :lol:

Hopefully at some point.

Few pics of the finished manifold.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W...024_183830.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e...024_183947.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...024_183850.jpg

It's currently 3.5" but I want to step up to 4" all the way back.

:o16: Sexy!

Nice work on the short runner manifold. I think they are the best for making power and decreasing spool time.

That looks pretty damn good Mike!! You gunna get it coated?

Gotcha, yea my plan is to do 4" all the way.

Thanks. Agreed. People doing long runner manifolds to "increase torque" amuse me. You know what makes torque down low? Getting into boost quicker :lol:

Yea I'll be getting it ceramic coated.

Yeah I always wondered too why people wouldn't want the shortest runners possible. I think mine are either the same length as yours or maybe 1/2" to an inch longer and my spool is ridiculous. It might be due to the turbo, or when I went to a slightly smaller IC, but I start boosting around 2K rpm and I hit full boost probably around 3300-3500. I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's what I've wanted for so long. My only problem is it hits so fast and so hard that I have to turn down the boost duty cycle in first, second and a little bit of third gears. But I figure that's a good problem to have lol.

^ Exactly, with my setup I make 2lbs of boost at 2k RPM stock motor and ports. New motor is HBP and we shall see the change as that motor is being built.

It is a turblown tdx61 with a 1.0 a/r, super short manifold, and short IC piping, and 4" DP.

I too find it comical all the people who want long manifolds to increase torque and spool.

Brake boost boom!

They is confus-ed. The long runner manifold works on a naturally aspirated car. Add a turbo and the equation changes.

That's why I was curious to see how Aaron Parker's spool turned out since he has those super long runners. I don't think I ever saw his dyno sheet, although it hasn't run just right anyway.

I have an EFR 7670 with 1.05 divided, short runners and as short as piping possible to my VMIC, including keeping the pipe between the turbo and IC at 2" so there isn't any pressure loss there. I was going to go with a larger pipe right away but the guy that fabricated the manifold and other piping for me builds race cars and told me to keep that pipe small, and I figured he knew more than I did lol.

Aaron said he did research on different race teams to see what their spool was like and that's why he decided on long runners, but now I'm wondering if he was looking at one that was NA. I hope he's not disappointed but I think he might be.





And sorry for hijacking your thread, Mike lol.

You do have a turbo on the "smaller" side, but that's great spool. Definitely a good problem to have :)

What ECU are you running? Controlling boost via ECU or external boost controller?

Been following your build on 7club. Definitely looking forward to seeing what it'll do with the HBP :icon_tup:

Your build was part of the inspiration for the next update ;) That and constantly melting coolant feed lines :lol:

Unfortunately he blew two motors in as many months. Not sure when you'll get to see some data on that setup.

Haha no worries, I like talking about rotaries almost as much as building them :lol:

Has anyone else encountered this? My turbo oil feed port is off center, and doesn't line up well with the fitting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9...025_192143.jpg

Small update.

Got started on doing hardlines for wastegate coolant. Will also be doing turbo coolant/oil in hardlines as well.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C...026_160008.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D...026_155931.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...026_160042.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a...026_160000.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...026_160207.jpg

Your setup keeps getting sexier and sexier!!! Loving the hard lines for WG coolant :)

Yeah I didn't think it was that small at the time, but everyone is saying it's kinda small. I'm thinking about trying an 8374 for the next one since this one spools so fast.

I'm just putting in my Adaptronic, still trying to figure out how to set up everything to log EGTs and AFR and use those for running closed loop, well, AFR anyway. I've been using an APEX'i AVC-R, but I've thought about switching to the internal boost controller in the ECU. I really love the peak hold of the AVC-R though, I use it quite often since I try to keep my eyes on the road while in boost instead of watching the boost gauge lol. Although I should probably watch that too.

Yeah it's kinda tough to learn anything about your setup when your tuners keep blowing your engine lol. Poor guy.

What the hell is with that?! I've never seen that before.

That is awesome! I've been wanting to do at least AN fittings and lines on the turbo coolant lines, and do something for the WG coolant lines, but I'm loving these hard lines. Excellent work!

It looks like you are flattening out the tubing when making the bends. What bender and stainless are you using, also what wall thickness?

Thanks for the compliments on my build. I plan to replace the stock hardlines with -8 lines this winter under the car.

Has the wait time on the EFR line gotten better these days?

Adaptronic should be able to log MAP as well right?

Not sure, kinda annoyed by it.

What are you using now?

The supply line to the front wastegate was the first one I did. I think the first 90° bend off the wastegate flattened out a bit. I don't think it's enough to worry about, but good eye. I'm getting better as I go :lol:

I'm using the mastercool bender, and 1/4" .020 wall 316L stainless tubing.

That seems like the only one that flattened out. You can cheat and put it in the vise and squeeze it back into shape. It is best if you have plastic or aluminum jaws so you do not mar the stainless. Sometimes that works.

Nice work on the lines. It takes so much time but is worth it at the end.

Are you going to make a hardline turbo oil drain as well?

That's not a bad idea. I have the aluminum AN jaws that might work. I may give that a shot thanks :icon_tup:

Thanks, yea it does but I totally agree when it's done it looks so good. Maybe it reminds me of my childhood playing with these but who knows :rofl:

http://st.houzz.com/simgs/5ba1e6b90e...-baby-toys.jpg

Yea I plan to do all the turbo lines in hardlines as well. I need to find a bender that can handle the -10 though.

Yeah I've heard it's gotten much better, don't have to wait near as long. Unfortunately I have to wait for the money though because the price has gone up a bit too lol. I don't know for sure yet if it can log MAP, I'll have to check on that.

Yeah I'd be annoyed too haha.

I'm just using rubber hose for the turbo coolant feed and return lines and have them wrapped in heat barrier, and I'm not running any cooling lines to my wastegates yet.

That hardline setup is sweet, what kind of fittings are you using and how does it seal up at each one, single or double flare?

Maybe the price increase has something to do with the availability :lol:

I would be surprised if it couldn't, and I would definitely want to log MAP.

Steel or aluminum fitting coming off the turbo? I've seen coolant feed lines melt several times now. Using steel fittings instead of aluminum and having it properly clocked for thermal siphoning seemed to alleviate that however.

Thanks. They're AN tube nuts and sleeves. Single 37° flare.

I have aluminum banjo fittings on my turbo, the anodizing is heat faded but they did not melt. I too have a good thermal siphon. I think that is something that is commonly overlooked when installing a turbo. The steel is a helluva lot cheaper though.


I could not find a -10 bender that would do a tight radius and allow me to make a hardline turbo drain that way. I ended up purchasing a -10 adapter to bolt to the bottom on the turbo then bought a -10 fitting with the pipe coming out of it and welded the flex joint from the stock turbo drain to it and modified a few other things as well. It was a PITA, especially with the engine in the car. I may remake it so it is a bit cleaner than what I have.

I am interested to see what you come up with.

Here is a pic to show what I am talking about. Hope you don't mind me posting it here...

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps19befb78.jpg

Maybe lol, I have no idea. Now they offer 1800 degree and 2000 degree coatings as well, so I'll probably pay extra for that when the time comes haha.

I never thought of logging MAP. I'll look into that. Maybe a stupid question, but what are the benefits of that?

I have aluminum banjo fittings right now, it's the only thing I could use since I have very little clearance on the turbo to LIM and turbo to strut tower. I haven't had any issues with anything melting. The EFR has two coolant ports on each side, and they tell you to hook the feed line on the lower port on one side and the return line on the top port of the opposite side, I assume that's what you're talking about with thermal siphoning.

That's a cool setup also. Are you going to use hard lines for the vacuum lines too? Right now I'm using nylon braided lines with AN fittings for my vacuum lines on the WGs, also wrapped in heat barrier.

^, yes, I use stainless hardline on the wastegates vacuum lines. I just do not have them pictured. This pic was taken after I blew my motor this year. I had 5k miles on the turbo setup and lines at the time. 70k mi on the stock motor.

The proper set up for thermal siphon definitely seems to make a big difference. If that's properly set up steel vs aluminum probably doesn't matter. Although I couldn't find any black or silver aluminum banjo fittings which does matter :lol: so I went with steel.

On Brian's car we didn't have the turbo clocked enough and were using aluminum hose ends/banjo fittings. It ended up actually melting the rubber inside the braided hose. This happened at DGRR last year after pulling 24+ hrs to finish the car and tuning it the morning before leaving :rofl: We swapped the hose end for a steel fitting and it survived the rest of the weekend and drive home no problem.

What was the tightest you found? I've been looking at this one, but it's not a super tight radius.

http://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Jacket-...m_sbs_indust_1

If I can't make it work, I'll do a braided/fire sleeved flex line.

Not at all.

Manifold air pressure (MAP) is the boost the engine is seeing. Would serve similarly to your peak hold, but a log of the entire run or however long you have logging set up for. It would especially be useful if you had some sort of catastrophic failure. You could also plot it vs rpm and show off how quickly your turbo spools ;)

I know them feels :lol:

Yea exactly. After the water pump is off the thermal affects will continue to pull coolant through the turbo if your supply port is lower than your return port.

Do you know if your lines are rated for vacuum? A lot of braided lines aren't, might not be a bad idea to check with a mitty vac.

Do you have a pic of that? I'd be interested to see how you have it set up. Are you using a 4 port solenoid for boost control? Using a vacuum manifold?

^ This is the best I could find. I wanna redo it and make the lines shorter and use some different fitting to route the lines better and relocate the solenoid. Since I have the engine out this year I will get some pics but hopefully you will have yours done by then. Yes it is a 4 port.

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps90ae0445.jpg


this is a better pic showing the drain. I think it looks a bit crude and will probably try to make something a bit better and more professional looking.

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/a...pscbfae0eb.jpg

Hopefully... :rofl:

Gotcha, hey you gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes.

Hmmmm, that does sound like a good idea. I'll check on that to see if it has that capability. I've also thought about getting a turbo speed sensor.

I've thought about redoing the manifold, maybe in Schedule 40 next time and more evenly like yours and to fix the slant (the current mani has a 5 degree slant down towards the front of the car), but with the way this turbo is made I'm not sure I'd have much luck. If I do though, I'm going to see if I can get enough room to use either hard lines or AN.

OK I think my turbo has good thermal siphoning then.

I have no idea if they're rated for vacuum, I didn't even think to check.

Where did you find the reducing Tee fittings btw if you don't mind me asking?

T-fittings from anplumbing.com. They were not cheap. :lol:


http://www.anplumbing.com/Adapters/Special+Tees-27.html

If I may step back a bit, could you explain the benefit of using the RX8 eccentric shaft? Sorry if I pull this off track a little, it's just that I am new to these cars and getting ideas for a project under my hood.
As well, does every FD owner on here have their own shop/lift/welding gear? I keep viewing these build posts where everyone has these capabilities. I wish that I did myself.