Soldering is for people who are too weak to squeeze crimpers

I like soldering cause

1 I think it kinda fun (hate all you want)

2 I almost always run out of the correct size of connectors/crimps etc...


So some of my wiring looks like hillbilly college drop out session... Good intentions, horrible execution....


Once I get more moo-lah I will be investing in an outrageous number of connectors, crimps etc....


J.

I think we all know TTT has incredibly strong hands and wrists so this must be false...:suspect:

I understand that there may be negative implications considering this one of my first posts here, however Ive had many discussions with engineers (both ME and EE), mechanics, installers and electricians regarding this subject trying ti find the answer myself.

In my experience, those who have pushed too hard in one direction on this topic have never been very experienced or have not appropriately utilized other methods according to application. that is not to say the previous poster are inexperienced or are not knowledgeable.however, to say that one method is better then the other, ignores the fact that electronic/ electric system harness and component design is Application specific.

For Example:
In the AC43.13-1b (FAA acceptable practices for repair and fabrication) I calls for the use of solderless connections as the exclusive method for harness design and repair. however it does state other factors necessary to relieve wire strain, limits of splices, and wire/ insulation strength and proper amperage yield.
Ease of repair and maintenance access is key to the decision to go crimped-only on repairs and inter component harnesses. However, if crimped was really superior, solder would not be on the circuit boards in the instruments and computer systems keeping the plane in the air.

It's also prevalent in the automotive OEM markets, however, upon the countless harnesses Ive dissected, soldered terminals, splices and other things are used throughout automotive history with solderless increasingly becoming the norm for cost-effective, modular solutions.

In other arenas, NASA and other firms like Barco use solder in specific applications in aerospace and aeronautical component and harness design as well as solderless crimping. Check out ISSI or Raychem

In Audio/ video applications (both hi-fi and automotive), many high quality firms such as monster, harmann kardon, DEI and others use soldering and crimping based on cable size, type, and quality level and recommend both methodologies specific to different applications. (ask any quality installer in mobile alarm or stereo and youll see both used in anything from stereos to high end alarms and automation)

As a Master MECP and an A&P I can say that both systems are useful and have no discernible drawbacks in signal quality, flexibility, durability, given they are executed IAW quality supplies and tools and are appropriate to the given application. there have been many studies to support this as well as my experiments with the old scope and meter.

There are many myths and stereotypes on both "sides" of the fence.
For solder, the problems with early circuit boards and communication systems in the 60's and 70's created huge problems until new solders were developed and eliminated this problem (thus the coming age of solid state tech in A/v . EFI, etc.)

For crimp terminals, user error and low cost/qualityproducts over many years has seemed to be the main problem and, speculatively, caused this entire "debate" as solder was the only suitable substitute and therefore deemed "better"

Solder, when properly applied, is extremely durable, has very effective properties.

The same can be said about solderless termination when applied right.


In closing, I feel that the more then qualified people here using a single methodology is more then justifiable given their experience, execution, and application.

However, pitting two time and results honored systems against each other is moot and affront to engineers everywhere. lol

just remember:

Its already been done. someone has data on it somewhere.
now have a beer, burn and crunch wire everywhere.:cheers2:


as for the photo of the crimp connector . later in that forum thread, an uncrimped butt connector filled with solder held just as much weight as the crimp if im not mistaken:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/93426966.jpg

Good info. As I recall though in regards to the boat anchor, I think it was to disprove that crimped connections are weak more so than that they're stronger than soldered.

Maybe you can answer one of my questions...

I have never had good luck with trying to solder fine-stranded, "OFC" wire - usually speaker wire - for car audio use.
Any significant amount of heat will degrade to the OFC wire to the point where it starts to oxidize and turn green within a few days.
What's the point using this OFC wire if it's going to oxidize, right?
Do I need to sit there for hours with a 5-watt pencil iron just to solder this correctly?
Usually, I'm impatient about wiring the car up, so I don't like to waste time like that.
I end up crimping all OFC wire connections nowadays.


-Ted

In most cases crimping will suffice however when the voltage is low (under 24V) and/or when current is low (under 500mA) I would always recommend soldering.

for the rally car, guys avoid solder like the plague. Vibrations are extreme. Small crimp connections with some shrink tube over top worked wonderfully for me. Or just run new wire all the way to pins at the connectors...

Crimp every time! Years ago I would have said solder, until I wired a 20B into an aircraft and was educated in no uncertain terms by those in the aviation industry. This was reinforced recently when I had a road race engine come back due to a loss of all oil pressure - as it turned out the engine was perfect but the terminal soldered to the wire on the pressure sensor, and shared by the gauge/idiot light/ecu had become corroded from the flux and lost continuity half way through a race, after being soldered 2 years and many race meetings earlier! It was not the terminal itself, but the connection between the terminal and the wire. I guess the flux turned into an insulator over time. A decent pull on the terminal broke the wire clean off.

What tool are you guys using to crimp butt connectors, and which butt connectors do you guys use?

I have a snap on crimping tool, but the locally available butt conectors are not solid, so when you crimp them, they then to get smashed flat, which makes for a FUGLY termination.

I use these: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/762/=m6u2jz

On that link they're the (G) Noninsulated . Part numbers 7227K32-34. I heat shrink over that. They're barely thicker than the wiring was with the plastic shielding around it.

I tried using mil spec environmental splices in my car once, normal wire can't handle the heat to melt the sealant. Works good in the aircraft wire though.

I use crimps for connectors. I got ahold of lots of deutsch connectors and a crimper a while back. But I solder inline splices and use small zip ties over a protective wrap for stress relief (not that it should need it lol)

I have found that either will work when done properly. And a harness will last as long as it is protected and routed properly.

There is always a way to optimize for every last hundredth of a percentage of performance. However, life is a nalancing act of cost and labor versus time and money available versus results. If your results are satisfactory and it doesn't break your bank or require too much time, then I would call it successful. Regardless of which school of thought you used.

Thanks for the link!

I found them on delcity, for somewhat cheaper!

Since people think this is a joke, and I'm not in a good mood right now, the thread is getting chopped.

I don't see anything new and useful being offered from certain individuals.
Going into ad nauseum about FC harness is a waste of time...
The car is hitting almost 30 years; most mass-produced automobiles useful service life does not exceed 10 years.
If you cannot apply the logic, you need to go back and finish high school.

Oh, and if you can't get it into your little brain of yours, I'm a mod in this section.
Keep it up and further disciplinary action is around the corner - that's a PROMISE.


-Ted

Just to throw in my two cents. I also work aircraft maintenance and the only wires that we have to solder connectors for is liquid quantity indicating. That's only because of the way it measures (Capacitance). That said Unless you're dealing with some sort of precise measurement a crimp connection is fine.

Dealing with a high strung rotary where precise fuel and ignition requirements are required..... I can show you a datalog of an E6X that blew an engine because of faulty wiring.... I have a meecrowrech on the dyno right now that keeps dropping its ignition signal, the owner literally said, just jiggle it around and it'll work... really? And you want me to tune this thing to 24psi with an ECU that is known to have trigger issues... I'm just waiting for this amount of fun....

That is definitely not a crimp or solder issue. Its more of an L2Wire issue...

chop out the original connectors and put in new ones, problem solved.

Microwreck !

#1 in Lebanon :biggthumpup:

Thank you, I'm making a point, it's a solder joint on the board issue... my point being, a bad trigger signal can kill an engine, seen it many times, so why chance things is what I'm getting at

Wrong
Stand meecrowreck up in field
Shoot with various Kimbers, HK's and Saiga's
Throw remaining bits in trash
Problem solved

Fucking hate those stupid boxes.... good for ITS n/a race cars and that's about it....

they're bad but they're not THAT bad...

I get what your getting at. What it really comes down to is doing things right with the tools required. Honestly in a car situation I don't see anything that crimps can't take care of ;-P

Use the ECU that I learned on and come back and talk to me

I agree, which is why I only crimp

it's a basic ECU, easy to setup and just as quick to tune. i haven't seen one fail and many have run reliably for many many years that i installed and tuned.

the downside is the nickel and diming, firmwared anything into the units, the retarded narrowband input factory option and the older than time dongle w/o write to disc(supposedly they did step into the 20th century recently with the new version).

does it work? yes, very well.
is it the best ECU out there now? fuck no. though it's only been recently that some other ECUs are giving them a hard time about being the cheapest ECU still on the market(no, i still don't consider MS a comparable option either even though it is cheaper, or that Rtek garbage).

and it depends on which car you are installing it on and whether you care about re-using 20-25 year old wiring. most of the cars i work on have almost zero realistic plug-n-play options. though it doesn't bother me much, because building a high performance car with the original harness always leaves me a little uneasy.

I usually just say I crimp on aircraft so you should just crimp your car. If I go any deeper people get all retarded lol

Got a car on the dyno that just dropped a tach signal

ZOMGWTFBBAYGTBKMNFW!!!!!! A BROKEN SOLDER JOINT!!!!!

Gonna go crimp that shit together

i had one a few days ago, bad crimp junction.

i replaced the 25 year old connector and crimps(with shortened solid wires to the new connector), but that's just me. and don't be one of those donks who hard wires the CAS to the ECU...(seen it done plenty on FCs, along with ignition wiring)

if you think it bothers me that you found a bad solder joint, good luck with that. i've seen every sort of wire repair fail(improperly done). yet i haven't had any cars come back.

Fuck! tuned a car last night and its ECU case was in what look like a gold colored Aluminum window frame extrusion and the end were held on with roofing screws!!!!

WTF!

Now imagine if you were Howard Coleman or Brian D Cain, you would have no cars come back or leave for that matter! :rofl:

Hard to have any wiring failures when the motors fail just after the starter motor engages the flywheel ring gear LOL.

well i did just have one leave today that was here for a year and a half.. i felt like taking a sledge hammer to that car many times, especially when i found the ground strap from the battery loose, burned and bolted to a painted chassis surface.

don't ask, that car was a wiring nightmare and i should have told him to pick it up long ago. shitty part is it ran fine until under full load, then shit would start crapping out erratically. sometimes you feel like it's your own damn fault for not checking the idiocy factor of others.