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-   -   Rice Racing M&W CDI COP Set-up (https://rotarycarclub.com/showthread.php?t=18491)

RICE RACING 01-14-2015 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hybrid G (Post 295976)
I am interested in acquiring a kit.

What's the eta on production ?

Less than a month from now........... pending demand from here. :willy_nilly:

RICE RACING 01-14-2015 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neit_jnf (Post 296836)
I'm down for a vertical ghetto set :)

See first page, 'ghetto' will be eliminated since the cost benefit does not warrant the ghettoness of the end product.

Just CNC version in vertical is being made.

FC Zach 01-15-2015 12:04 AM

Email sent.

RICE RACING 01-15-2015 07:36 AM

Just to give people some idea of the completeness of the designs, here is me addressing one 'interference issue' on the M&W set up, multiple sections everywhere to check all kinds of things....... good luck to anyone who wants to copy it LOL.

Shit is what I would class 99.9% perfect now across all offerings.

http://i.imgur.com/F2WchPz.jpg

This little bloke *Habib* helps with the long hours of sanity testing tedious validations !

http://i.imgur.com/s1280o3.jpg

NOTE: all coils are fully supported on the 'shoulder' thus one bolt mounting method suffices... is rock solid across both systems (IGN-1A and M&W) they cant rotate anywhere and are super secure too ;)
(the odd shaped 'red bits' around the bolt holes are the threads cut in a plane, not out of round holes haha)

http://i.imgur.com/NziEjc9.jpg

RICE RACING 01-15-2015 05:08 PM

Finalized the horizontal IGN-1A version (for those with race car set up) or who want to move stuff around to get this to fit.
http://i.imgur.com/IMYj8sE.jpg

Prodigy 01-15-2015 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 297229)
The M&W version should be a little less (but this will be offset by the expense of buying CDI boxes obviously.


How much for this guy :D


J.

RICE RACING 01-15-2015 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigy (Post 297431)
How much for this guy :D


J.

I'll tell you in next couple of days, after I recover from fatigue doing all of this stuff in last two weeks. I just have to finalize the boots springs, and pricing on the coil brackets that are more complex than on the IGN-1A system.

HC way of saying I dont fucken know yet LOL :beatdeadhorse5:

RICE RACING 01-16-2015 06:51 PM

Start work today on bespoke boot and spring for M&W 'race car' set up.
have decided what I want now to model it up and get out to manufacture!

http://i.imgur.com/KVZnVrc.jpg

RICE RACING 01-16-2015 09:22 PM

RR bespoke design rubber sealing boots! :smash:

http://i.imgur.com/JYWFdTM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hj3xE1A.jpg

M&W system all done! contact and boot finished
Price to follow......
http://i.imgur.com/hbyss6p.jpg

RICE RACING 01-18-2015 02:06 AM

RR bespoke boots and springs for the M&W CDI option, all completed, should be in my hands soon, got a serious car where you want the best engineered coil mounting solutions? then this is what you want, forever promised by others and never delivered!

RR way from design idea to production reality in less than 3 weeks!!!!

Separating Facts from Fiction! in days................... NOT FUCKING YEARS unlike on some forums !!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/MA7qyXC.jpg

RICE RACING 01-18-2015 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigy (Post 297431)
How much for this guy :D


J.

One more day and I can finalize the price, will smash it up on the first page/post for everyone's convenience.

RICE RACING 01-18-2015 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigy (Post 297431)
How much for this guy :D


J.

$888US shipped
Will put it up on first page.

Mazdabater 01-18-2015 07:33 AM

So what's that in normal $$

RICE RACING 01-18-2015 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazdabater (Post 297565)
So what's that in normal $$

E-Mail me ;)
Have been contacted by quote a few 'workshops' about these and looks like lots of people will run them! kiss good bye ignition leads :)
Drug Money no object drag racers are gagging over the M&W system.

Mazdabater 01-18-2015 08:10 AM

Sent ****

RICE RACING 01-18-2015 09:14 AM

Getting asked allot of this on email so best to post here:

CDI v's ghetto inductive (all up costs)
NOTE: all systems ratted to run constant duty street or road race applications

CDI RR option 1: 250mJ
M&W coils (x 4) + (Pro Drag 2 CDI box x 2) + RR COP kit
= ~$2700US

CDI RR option 2: 115mJ
M&W coils (x 4) + (Pro14R CDI box x 1) + RR COP kit
= ~$2030US

Inductive RR option 3: 103mJ
IGN-1A coils + RR COP kit
=~$1300US

RICE RACING 01-19-2015 06:41 AM

O.K. PP parts due here around middle February, I will take physical shots and all going well be ready to fill orders by end of that month :smash:

:party:

RICE RACING 01-19-2015 08:17 AM

Have also developed the horizontal mount in the IGN-1A version. All versions will be here in about 3 weeks time :biggthumpup: :tongue1:

RICE RACING 01-25-2015 03:17 AM

Not long to go now, got a few people e-mails, need some more for me to extend some favorable pricing otherwise GB is dead as aBDC half bridge after one of his famous tunes consulting to HC.

I will have the following physically to show........ (very soon!):

1 x Horizontal Mount (race cars) IGN-1A
1 x Vertical Mount (factory set up) IGN-1A
1 x Vertical Mount (M&W CDI version)


They are all gold anodized too :)
The COP adaptors are a work of art!
Much more refined than what I have posted here
All with stainless steel internals all heat treated and fully o'ring sealed (inc cover)

Gag factor good :)

FC Zach 01-26-2015 02:15 AM

Cant wait to see!

speedjunkie 01-26-2015 05:23 AM

I think I'm going to have to wait until I get home in March to take a look myself to see if they'll fit with my setup, but I doubt they will. :(

silverfdturbo6port 01-27-2015 11:04 PM

Im so ready for a set of the couplers for my aem smart coils for the 20b.
The anticipation is killing me.

RICE RACING 01-27-2015 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverfdturbo6port (Post 298817)
Im so ready for a set of the couplers for my aem smart coils for the 20b.
The anticipation is killing me.

Me too!!! :smash:

It's like a late Christmas, I am having my new batch of STEEL SCIENCE apex seals ready too :party: latest update is around Feb 15th or so I'll have physical here so will take pictures then of it mounted up so people can gag over it.

After that I'll start filling orders. :o16:

RICE RACING 01-29-2015 01:37 AM

Ordered all of the 'green' viton O-Rings today for the COP Adaptors.
Looks fucken sick! against the black covers and body, may even go with Titanium screws if you are lucky :)

RICE RACING 01-29-2015 08:19 AM

get on it

http://i.imgur.com/m0uYgGV.jpg

infernosg 01-29-2015 08:25 AM

^^^ Kinda wish I was more observant and knew more about these. Unfortunately I already dropped too much $$$ on ceramic seals a couple years ago (build is on year 4). It's a low-power N/A build so I'm hoping I'll be okay.

RICE RACING 01-29-2015 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 299000)
^^^ Kinda wish I was more observant and knew more about these. Unfortunately I already dropped too much $$$ on ceramic seals a couple years ago (build is on year 4). It's a low-power N/A build so I'm hoping I'll be okay.

They are a lottery alright, due to internal defects in all ceramics (regardless of cost or vendor) they just vary in intensity and are packaged as such (Gold seals for example lol).... These c-u-n-t-s all let go at random seemingly due to this fatal flaw, even on NA applications.

Safest thing is to fuck them off and sell to someone else and use a product that will never suffer in a catastrophic way, so that means no Mazda, Cast Iron, Carbon (the seal wont fuck your motor, but the springs will!) or Ceramics can ever go into any engine, as all of these will fail in this fashion, The general rule is if you cant smash it with a hammer without braking then it should NOT go into your engine. And if it distorts after smashing it with a hammer, it should NOT go into your engine either! there is ONLY ONE PRODUCT that can pass these two tests (and all others!) and that is STEEL SCIENCE.

project86 01-30-2015 07:43 AM

Ill admit that i didn't read through this entire thread. So if the question was already answered I'm sorry. But with your COP set up (I did see the price $2700USD if i remember) are you including coils with the brackets?

also i think its pretty awesome that you're making apex seals too!!!

RICE RACING 01-30-2015 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299199)
Ill admit that i didn't read through this entire thread. So if the question was already answered I'm sorry. But with your COP set up (I did see the price $2700USD if i remember) are you including coils with the brackets?

also i think its pretty awesome that you're making apex seals too!!!

The ones listed with prices is compete.
IGN-1A is (RR mounting and adaptors + coils)
M&W is (RR mounting + boots + internal connections + CDI box or box's + M&W coils) 2 options in this version
They are all with Titanium fasteners throughout as well !

Yes the apex seals are my life work, everything about them is the BEST, all are parts life and database recorded, even the case they come in 'exotic', really warrant the price from a complete package for those who demand the ultimate in every aspect. This market has never seen anything like it before now, and no one will ever be able to copy it on any level (leave that shit to the 20+ other jokers in the space). the final full 'as shipped' production versions I'll do a full photo shoot on once ready in a couple of weeks time.

infernosg 01-30-2015 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 299189)
They are a lottery alright, due to internal defects in all ceramics (regardless of cost or vendor) they just vary in intensity and are packaged as such (Gold seals for example lol).... These c-u-n-t-s all let go at random seemingly due to this fatal flaw, even on NA applications.

Safest thing is to fuck them off and sell to someone else and use a product that will never suffer in a catastrophic way, so that means no Mazda, Cast Iron, Carbon (the seal wont fuck your motor, but the springs will!) or Ceramics can ever go into any engine, as all of these will fail in this fashion, The general rule is if you cant smash it with a hammer without braking then it should NOT go into your engine. And if it distorts after smashing it with a hammer, it should NOT go into your engine either! there is ONLY ONE PRODUCT that can pass these two tests (and all others!) and that is STEEL SCIENCE.

You got me. Email sent inquiring about the seals. We'll see how much more money you can get out of me :)

EDIT: Just came across some old discussions on RX7Club where you were praising the NRS ceramic seals (back in '05, I think). Knowing your stance on ceramics seals now, what changed? I'm not calling you out and I understand the low impact strength of ceramics. I'm just generally curious why the change of heart?

Patiently waiting on the COP adapters too. They'll save me ~4 ft of wiring harness and eliminate the need for four ~2 ft ignition leads.

RICE RACING 01-30-2015 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 299212)
You got me. Email sent inquiring about the seals. We'll see how much more money you can get out of me :)

EDIT: Just came across some old discussions on RX7Club where you were praising the NRS ceramic seals (back in '05, I think). Knowing your stance on ceramics seals now, what changed? I'm not calling you out and I understand the low impact strength of ceramics. I'm just generally curious why the change of heart?

Patiently waiting on the COP adapters too. They'll save me ~4 ft of wiring harness and eliminate the need for four ~2 ft ignition leads.

What changed was I bought over 70 sets of ceramics from Sven, I learned the 'hard way' that ALL ceramic products are 100% FUCKING SHIT! just like every other person has done in reality. I found on through exposure to that many end users through all different applications that this many customers go through, what I found was RAMPANT unexplainable FAILURES, ones that happened with NO formal reason, no fault of customer, but ALWAYS this was blamed on something (convenient excuse) for Sven. To his defense I went through exactly the same thing with Ianetti as well, random failures, and ALL of these I find out through using more than any one else is to do with a fundamental lack of FRACTURE TOUGHNESS and this is an inherent flaw in ceramic materials. They ALL have this flaw in them, they ALL have internal defects like all materials do have, but in ceramic case its a flaw that the material simply cannot handle in any engine application and under the normal stresses and stains of operation (even NA) they just randomly fail!!! (as I was seeing through my extensive customer base have sold so many sets of these pieces of shit).

If you look close its not just me who says this (though I have more experience than anyone on this due to the volume I supplied to so many end users), and all go through exactly the same thing (rampant non explained failure methods) that 99 times out of 100 end up in an engine that totally goes into the parts bin!!!!! And in a turbo engined case its a given that this is what will happen.

After so many years and going through that experience first hand I said to myself FUCK THIS!@ there has to be a better way to engineer the merits of a ceramic material but also have the positives of the ductility of a ferrous material that is specified and treated right. It took me near 7 years of testing to come up with my own specification that does it, and it does it like no other. I made something that is failure proof, but is compatible with the rotor housing surface. Its made for life, and its engineering quality rewrites the book on how something should be made, not cheap, but its the best by a long margin over anything else made to date.

From every bad experience we learn something and the main point is to make a better product, if this principle was not followed then we would never have had better rotary engines, instead being stuck with the 10A shitbox LOL, so yes its a constant evolution until you actually solve a problem. I have the best apex seals ever devised, does it mean now I will rest? NO! I will keep on going like I have the last 22 years and keep on leading the way in development and pioneering the best solutions, be in COP, Water Injection, or APEX SEALS :)

project86 01-30-2015 08:09 PM

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

RICE RACING 01-30-2015 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299290)
The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

The $1300 option uses the IGN-1A type ignition coil, this coil has an inbuilt high current driver which builds up current in the primary side of the coil, so far as wiring this system simply needs the 4 channels of ignition fed to each coil. NOTE: IF you run an Apexi PFC type ECU with wasted leading spark, this system is not suitable as there is not enough time between firing events to build up sufficient energy in the coil.

For a wasted spark set up (Apexi PFC or any other ECU set up this way) you will need a custom 3 box CDI set up!!! (not listed) you will need 2 x boxes to do the leading plugs and 1 x box to do the trailing plugs, I wont bore you with details but its how it is for same reasons as the IGN-1A in a round about way!

Best thing to do is FUCK OFF the Apexi PFC and put in an Adaptronic ECU that can be set to run in sequential ignition mode (4 channels) then you can use ANY of the set ups I have listed. :smash:

RICE RACING 01-30-2015 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299290)
The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

The CDI box sends the DON MEGA high voltage to the low resistance CDI specific coils, the coils act as a step up transformer amplifying the voltage to INSANE levels. This process is super fast!... NOTE: it still takes time to build up the 'power' in the Capacitors and this is why even with multi channel boxes you need a certain minimum time between firing events to make the full rated capacity of that specific CDI box. For the M&W rotary box it can only do this on a sequential 4 channel ECU sending even spaced spark events out of the ECU (IE Apexi PFC does not do this on Leading plugs).

It IGN-1A uses inductance and takes time to build up the primary side voltage and current to a level that is acceptable enough, then as this field collapses it induces a secondary high voltage through magnetic inductance in the secondary winding of the coil, its a slow ass process, that is very dependent on 'dwell' or charge time. IF you don't have enough time to build up the charge then the c-u-n-t-s have very low power and will misfire, so cant be used on wasted spark engines (OEM and PFC), and they always struggle at high RPM due to the proportional loss of dwell time available to build up sufficient energy through this slow ass process...... this is why the c-u-n-t-s are shit on 2 stroke / WANKEL high rev applications as there is such low time between firing events ........... hope this makes sense?

Mazdabater 01-30-2015 11:48 PM

If anyone wants a cheaper setup I have HKS dli I brought off Rice himself and I now wanna run COP. Inbox me. $350 with FD loom (Thats AUD so probably work out cheaper for u cunts)

I realise Im sorta hacking your thread here but it's so I can try afford COP while I'm unemployed =P

project86 01-31-2015 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 299303)
The CDI box sends the DON MEGA high voltage to the low resistance CDI specific coils, the coils act as a step up transformer amplifying the voltage to INSANE levels. This process is super fast!... NOTE: it still takes time to build up the 'power' in the Capacitors and this is why even with multi channel boxes you need a certain minimum time between firing events to make the full rated capacity of that specific CDI box. For the M&W rotary box it can only do this on a sequential 4 channel ECU sending even spaced spark events out of the ECU (IE Apexi PFC does not do this on Leading plugs).

It IGN-1A uses inductance and takes time to build up the primary side voltage and current to a level that is acceptable enough, then as this field collapses it induces a secondary high voltage through magnetic inductance in the secondary winding of the coil, its a slow ass process, that is very dependent on 'dwell' or charge time. IF you don't have enough time to build up the charge then the c-u-n-t-s have very low power and will misfire, so cant be used on wasted spark engines (OEM and PFC), and they always struggle at high RPM due to the proportional loss of dwell time available to build up sufficient energy through this slow ass process...... this is why the c-u-n-t-s are shit on 2 stroke / WANKEL high rev applications as there is such low time between firing events ........... hope this makes sense?


Yes.. so its for speed and strength of the spark the coil is giving. So it would work fine with out the CDI box if it was run on a standalone system like Haltech?

RICE RACING 01-31-2015 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299314)
Yes.. so its for speed and strength of the spark the coil is giving. So it would work fine with out the CDI box if it was run on a standalone system like Haltech?

Haltech (only one that cant is the PFC) can use the IGN-1A effectively, yes.

project86 01-31-2015 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 299326)
Haltech (only one that cant is the PFC) can use the IGN-1A effectively, yes.

gotcha. Well... eventually ill be very interested :coolgleamA:

as soon as I'm ready to get the engine all built up. I'm working on getting the rest of the car ready to receive the good ol engine.

by the way .. your use of the term "donmega" makes me giggle. I assume it means "awesome" but i like it :rofl:

RICE RACING 01-31-2015 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299331)
gotcha. Well... eventually ill be very interested :coolgleamA:

as soon as I'm ready to get the engine all built up. I'm working on getting the rest of the car ready to receive the good ol engine.

by the way .. your use of the term "donmega" makes me giggle. I assume it means "awesome" but i like it :rofl:


I coined the term eons ago, its derived from the 'megladon' which is a big fuck off shark that rules the ocean, I thought it sounded catchy so reversed the saying to Don Mega!
Been using it everywhere since haha.

RICE RACING 01-31-2015 10:25 PM

Measured a PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT apex seal made by the useless c-u-n-t-s 'power seals' snapped the turd with a pair of pliers LOL and the piece I have left is factory ground on a taper LOL, bottom of it is 1.932mm and top is 1.945mm LOL!!!!!! only 0.013mm deviation in thickness over 8mm distance!!!!!!!

Fucking piece of crap! These seal TOTALLY RAPED a brand new set of rotor housings too LOL, and they broke in the engine as well hahaha.

http://i.imgur.com/FkaGTSY.jpg

Mind you this is the same c-u-n-t (Kev from SCR) who sent me his prototype SCR seals in 2005, these turned up in a GLAD snap lock bag and were sanded on on the flats in figure of 8 pattern LOL and made from BHP mild steel cold drawn bar black bar LOL.

These shonky made 'Power Seals' are not much better, what the fuck do you expect for ~$300 LOL

You get what you pay for, in this case A LOT LESS !
It pieces of fucking garbage like this and the list is longer than my cock! (one shit product after another!) that made me say 'fuck all these asshats!' it about time someone made a decent apex seal product
that actually has some engineering pedigree behind it and will actually work!


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