Rear Big Brake Kit==Help
 

I am looking for your opinions on a good rear big brake kit for the 3rd Gen. I will need to keep my e-brake on the kit. Looking forward to your insight

Not many options Doc...

Choice one - RZ/Spirit R rear

Choice two - Racing Brake rear brake kit (slightly larger than RZ/Spirit R)

Choice three - Brembo kit secondary brake with any bbk.

Personally, I went with RZ kits (and I have RB kit)

Phil got a couple Questions
 

Phil
A Couple questions for a NUbbbb

First Where or whom is the best vendor to purchase said kits On the RZ/Spirit R where do you get replacement pads? That was an issue for me.

Second The reason and it is a bad one and I know it is.... that the 18's make the rear brakes look well kinda small. Since only about 20% of braking is done in the rear there is no real functional need other than they look small

Knowing me as you do which would you get for the old steed

AND LAST when can I purchase tickets for the up and coming DARGON????

Doc

Alot of questions Doc :)

well, RZ/Spirit R's use the same pads as the 93-95s. They are pretty much the same rear caliper but brackets are extended so larger rotors can be used... I think I did a comparison of all the rotors on one of the threads.. Not sure where that is on this forum, but its there..

Here it is: http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ight=RZ+rotors

DGRR 2011... Well, I'm still working on that as we speak.. I'm waiting to hear back from few people so once I get some answers, I'll announce it.

Whom did you get the RZ/Spirit R rear
kit from if I may ask. How are you doing as a Dad? Raised 4 myself

Well, I bought fronts from someone else and rears from someone else.

But they can be bought brand new from Mazdacomp..

Unless you want to use a proportioning valve, you need front and rear brake that are designed to work together. Such as:

RZ/Spirit R front & rear

Racing Brake front & rear

Stoptech front with optional pistons to match RZ/Spirit R rear

Brembo front & rear

When I got the Sprint R/RZ rears I got the calipers from Rx7Store.net but if I they would have been available, I would have got the Racing Brake rear that retains the stock caliper and uses a bracket to move it our further. The 93 and Spirit R/RZ rear caliper is identical except for the mounting bracket (same size piston).

Jack

Where did you find a Brembo, or RB rear BBK that is for the FD? I've checked a bit (not claiming to have searched everywhere) and non-custom i.e. not in kit form BBK's for the rear are hard to come by. Greddy, Project Mu, Rotora, Endless, and Ksport are the only ones I've been able to find (As far as matched sets go, hence not counting Stop-Tech) . Of those, the Rotora's and Ksport's seem to be the easiest to get a hold of. This is less of a call out and more of a where did you find that so I can have more options.

Not sure to say exactly where Brembo rear kit can be found but RacingBrake.com has their kit on the web site. It uses larger rotors with a bracket to relocate the caliper.

Jack

In a couple of months I will have a kit with handbrake option that will work with a separate caliper like so in the pic.

Are you making these? I like!!!!

Yeah that's pretty cool To Slow! That would really free up some options for the rear brakes for people that want to keep the e-brake function. I might be interested in something like that myself.

Soooooo... no one has said they have to have these or their cars will fail or they will get better braking out of them(only as good as your tires), but I encounter so many people that have this misconception, I thought I'd have some disorganized thoughts here :)

RZ/Spirit R essentially do the exact same thing as the racing brake rears. They bring the pad out farther to create more torque. Pad size/brake pad contact patch is the same. As someone that has ran all configurations extensiviely on track, I will relay a of my thoughts:

1. If you aren't extensively tracking your car and have been for a long time(ie 20+ track days), you don't need larger brakes, period. You may want them because they look cool, but you don't need them. Certainly not for street use. If you want to stop faster... get better/stickier tires and a more aggressive brake pad. Stock brakes with aggressive pads will exceed the limit of almost any street tire.

2. Between the 93-95, RZ/Spirit R's, and Racing Brake, the additional stopping power is negligible at best. The where the RZ and RB help, is larger rotors. Eventually, you will crack rotors on the 93-95 set up if you are running 20-30 minute sessions on track AND not cooling down your brakes afterward(ie driving around the paddock). You will also have the same problem if you run cross drilled rotors and track your car, regardless of how big your brakes are. What is also given is that you are getting the most out of your brakes. Most guys starting out on track aren't anywhere near the limits of their brakes to do this. I just put my RZ/spirit R rears on my yellow FD(stoptech fronts) for an event this next weekend... there is no distinguishable stopping difference between the RZ/Spirit R's, the 93-95's, or the RB's other than the rotors won't crack like the 93-95's.

3. If you are experiencing "brake" fade where the pedal goes to the floor, you are actually experiencing fluid fade where your fluid is boiling at the caliper. There are alot of reasons for this. Most of the time, it's because you have never changed your brake fluid in the car since the factory in Japan put it in the car in 93 :D

4. The other part of the equation is matching your caliper pistons with your master cylinders, or in the stock FD's case, the master cylinder. Generally stock is fine, but sometimes the pedal can be a little soft on certain FD's. The 929 master cylinder seems to be a good solution if, after you change your calipers, you encounter this issue.

Fritz Flynn, who has tracked FD's for more than 10 years now and I would argue has more seat time than any FD owner on track(and prob. pushes the car more than anyone I've ever encountered), currently runs the stock 93-95 rears on his current track car(been tracking it for about 4 years) with the brembo fronts.

In conclusion, if you want them to just have them on your car and your money is burning a hole in your pocket... I can respect that... but don't think you HAVE to have them.

That is great info Brent. I am going to replace my M/c with the 929 next year. My pedal is too soft even when bled fully. ( I think you actually made note of that at RA this year)Brakes and tires are my biggest things to tend to for next year.

Does the factory M/C have a integrated proprtioning valve? Wondering if my valve I have in line is hampering my rears more than needed.

I have the 929 MC and it feels tight, very firm .I reworked the unit so it is a drop in install. No new lines or rebending lines .And yes it is polished .

^Do you have a write-up on how you did that? I was looking to swap mine but I knew I had to make some new lines and I don't really need it yet on stock brakes so I just waited. But if I could work it like you did I might replace it sooner.

Yes i need to make one for my brake set up. Its for a 14 inch brake rotor.
I don't think it will make sense to make it as a kit, just because so many different rotor diameters will be to much work/money to make the necessary offset bracket for every set up were demand will be so low. If some one wants a kit i can make it at the same time i make mine.
I will post some pics for you in a couple of days. I have machined a couple of 969 master to make it more fd rx7 friendly install. I have one on my bench for custo, will post pics when done machining it.

Thanks! I might be interested in one of those e-brake setups too, even though I don't have aftermarket brakes yet haha.

Write up for the 929 master cylinder: http://robrobinette.com/mastercylinder929.htm

The write up is about 10 years old, so the prices have prob. changed.

As I said before, there is a good chance that even with upgraded brakes you won't need this. I didn't on my silver track FD with upgraded brakes all around. If your pedal is soft, I'd highly encourage you to do a full bleed before trying this... it may not be necessary.

David, I do remember your brakes were soft at RA, but I also remember there was some kind of obstruction in the lines going to the rears that was preventing fluid from flowing to them. Did you ever figure that out? I'd start there if not.

If I remember correctly, you can buy a master cylinder rebuild kit for the stock FD master cylinder from the local parts stores as well.... AND it replaces the stock plastic plunger(which is a point of failure) with a metal one.

Which 14 in rotor did you go with? Is the slight thickness difference of the rotor make any difference?


I'm also interested in the 969 MC. David Garfinkle was going to make one for me but slightly difference in design on the new ones prohibited from him making me one.

Thanks Brent. Yeah I cleaned and rebuilt all the calipers. Replaced front rotors and pads. Need to do rear rotors and pads. I guess I need to get a pressure tester and see what I have at the rear calipers. Do you happen to know what they put out in stock form? Ever tested that?

I really just want to make sure I am not overworking the fronts. Unbalancing the car under braking etc. The pedal to me still feels like I am having to go too far into the stroke before real things start happening. I'll grab the rebuild kit and start there. Not out of the question considering it is original M/C.

Dave

14 inch willow. The thickness will not be an issue, the hand brake caliper can be set up for any thickness disk.



Here are some pics of re worked 929 MC

The re worked 929 MC now has 3 outlets 2 separate dedicated for the front and one dedicated to the rear.
All 3 take banjo style fittings. No more leaking flared fittings. Etc...


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1984/dsc0087bd.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8905/dsc0081m.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4452/dsc0023bo.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5606/dsc0024lk.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3743/dsc0025u0.jpg

Chip, is your 929 MC drop in? If so, what would be the cost for one?

Yes the master is a drop in to a certain extent.
Are you still running the ABS? If so the 3 banjo outlet 929 is not going to work for you .
With abs the 2 banjo outlets will work best.
New 929 master machined to take banjo fitting with pre made line. 220.00 shipped

Let me know if you want one so i can send you a invoice