Crimping vs. Soldering
 

Throughout the years I've made various electrical connections (who with a 7 hasn't), but have never really known what I was doing other than some brief instructions from friends.

So my question is, what's the right way to connect two wires together?

I've read on the soldering vs. crimping debate and am leaning towards crimping being the proper way to connect two wires. However, I am finding all kinds of mixed results as to what kind of connectors to use, what kind of crimpers crimpers, insulated vs. non-insulated, etc. I've also ran across Posi-Tite connectors that seem quite interesting.

Maybe some scenarios will help.

I'm installing a new sensor in the engine bay and need to make a connection in the engine bay.

A second 12v outlet in the cabin. I have one wire running off an existing positive connection and one coming from the new outlet. How should I connect those two?

Installing a new EMS system. What kind of connections should I use there?

I prefer to leave everything so it's easily replaceable so not using a butt style connector is a preference. Although it would be good info to know the very best method, a budget method would also be good. I can't afford $400 crimpers and connectors that cost $20 each.

If you call just about anyone that builds harness's, they should all tell you the same thing - CRIMP>SOLDER. In ANY circumstance. I questioned this even when dealing with the heavier gauge battery type cable... bigger than 8ga, and they say the same holds true. So I went out and dropped $80 on a lug crimper. MOST of the crimpers that you'll need are going to be around the $50 range if you hunt around. Most of the crimps I bought were from either Terminal Supply Co, Waytek. There was one co that had a REALLY nice buttsplice connector, I can't remember the name of it, I'll have to look at it when I'm in the garage next. The only time crimps are going to run you more than that are going to be in the mil-spec variety and I've been told that there are other/cheaper alternative than the Davis Manufacturing crimps.

So, you had mentioned the engine bay sensor. If at all possible I would cut the wire to length, and use the proper connector pins. You can usually crimp them with a Metri-pack style crimper. I use the metri-pak connector for metri and weather pack terminals. It can be found here
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20PACK%20150/
but I know I searched around and found it for $80

If that doesn't work becuase the wire can't be extended, or its a mazda terminal, then you need to butt-splice them in. I personally, when wiring a car, use the un-insulated butt-splice stuff and just heat shrink it. I buy poly-olefin non insulated by the 100' spool and use that everywhere but the engine bay. Unless it's going to be loomed over with something. In the engine bay in an unprotected situation, I buy the adhesive lined stuff. If I'm wiring a boat, I use the retardedly expensive heat-shrink terminals. The only reason I do this is becuase most of the boats I wire are commercial and need to be coast-guard inspected. The CG generally doesn't approve anything that isn't individually heatshrunk unless it's an approved OE harness.

Connectors can be found here -
http://order.waytekwire.com/products...%20Connectors/
Crimps, these are the ones I'm not sure about, I paid $60 for them, will have to ge the name. It's a local co up in North Haven CT too. But, they're along these lines.
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...IMPING%20TOOL/
except I paid $50. They do non-insulated butt-splice connectors. I also have a set of insulated butt-splice connectors for the marine stuff.

In your second situation, two wires on one side, one wire on the other. There is a special connector for that. Terminal supply co sells them as well and I believe a little cheaper. Either way, here is what they look like.
http://order.waytekwire.com/products...%20Connectors/
Basically, you would use one that has an 18-22ga (red) on one side, and a 14-16ga (blue) on the other. The factory wire would be cut and stripped. The additional wire would be spliced with the factory and then inserted into the blue cavity and crimped. Don't forget to put your heat-shrink on. Then the other side of the factory wire inserted into the red cavity and then crimped as well. Heat the shirnk and you're done.

I've had the solder vs crimp debate with alot of people. I've never had a crimp fail. I've had solder joints fail. I've also over crimped a wire and cut the strand, but that was only once.

I use a set of MSD crimpers with the replacable dies.
With the three other option die sets, you can handle 90% of the crimp connections out there.
These include insulated and non-insulated - "Duestch" / "AMP lug" / "AMP pin".
This MSD crimper is also ratcheting, which will not release until you hit the proper compression.
The crimp tool + optional 3 sets of dies should come out to under $200.
(The crimp tool already comes with the "spark plug wire" set of dies.


-Ted

I second the crimping... if done properly. I prefer the un-insulated splices, crimp each side twice (using cheap crimpers), and heatshrink. Way cheaper and only a little more work than using heatshrink insulated connectors.

I'd like to find a good pair of crimpers ($50-100max) that I can be confident with and will hold up over time. Can the elctrical gurus post their favorites like Titanium and Reted above?

Great info thus far!

What size heat shrink would be good to order?
1/4th for 8ga
3/16th for 10-14ga
1/8th for 16+ga?

Does anyone pack dielectrical grease in their connectors before crimping/heat shrinking?

Like these Ted?

https://www.msdignition.com/Products...et_Action.aspx
https://www.msdignition.com/uploaded...35051_full.jpg

Looking at the wiring, there's a lot of choices.

GPT primary wire
TWP primary wire
GXL cross-link wire
SGT battery wire
SGX battery wire
SXL cross-link wire
TXL cross-link wire

I found this:
Sound about right?

If so, I would presumably go with TXL for most things, SXL in high heat areas (oxygen sensor wire or something), and SGX for battery cable?

Yep, that's the ones I got.
Summit Racing or Jegs is going to give you the best price.
Make sure you order the optional dies.
AMP lug = butt connectors, spade / ring / male / female insulated
AMP pin = non-insulated
Deutsch = almost all your sensor pin connectors including Weatherpack in a pinch

The price sounds high, but it's a well-made tool and will make all your crimp connectors professional.
You're going to kick yourself for not getting it sooner. :)


-Ted

Not normally...

Weatherpack / Metripack connectors usually have silicone plugs in them.
Deustch also using a single silicone block to back the connector housing (no matter how many wires).

These are usually more than enough to handle automotive environs.


-Ted

Ted's right, you'll kick yourself. I just didn't want to be bothered changing dies all the time. I figured in the past I would crimp a butt, then a pin.... than an insulated butt.... so why spend the time changing dies? i just one crimper for each and have loved them ever since.

I don't use the grease before crimping, but I do smear a little on the terminals before plugging them together.

I have those and absolutely love them. I use DMCs at work and think those are precise aand awesome but I just can't see spending that much money on a set for the house when the MSD set does almost the same at a fraction of the price.

This thread rocks.

I just ordered a set of the MSD crimpers with the dies. I've soldered in the past but after talking with Brian and opening my eyes to better ways of doing things, I'm gonna start crimping my harness connections.

http://bestboatwire.com/catalog/imag...k_techdata.jpg

According to that:
1/16 = 24, 22
3/32 = 20
1/8 = 18
3/16 = 16, 14, 12
1/4 = 10, 8
3/8 = 8, 6
1/2 = 6, 4
3/4 = 4, 2
1 = 2

Future archive material. I've been meaning to create a new electrical bag. This will be a good start.

Problem is the butt-connectors are thicker than the wire, so anything smaller than 1/8" is useless except to repair nicks in the sheathing. I buy 1/8", 1/4", and 1/2" and then heavy ass triple wall adhesive lined for battery cables

Yep.
I have several DMC crimpers (and turrets) just to handle the solid, machined Deutsch pins.
At over $200 a pop each crimper, it pricey, but they sure do a nice job!

Yes, the MSD crimp tool is a bargain compared to the DMC stuff.
If you look hard enough, there are even "generic" versions of the MSD crimp tool (I think Summit Racing makes one?) that's even cheaper if you're trying to save some bucks.

I've never been too bothered with changing the dies out myself. :)


-Ted

Good crimping is superior to soldering......soldering is better than bad crimping in almost every way.....

Moral of the story is buy a proper crimp tool and the correct dies for you application...or it will fail :)

I seem to remember a picture floating around where a guy hung several anchors on a piece of wire crimped to another.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...vs-solder.html

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/93367274.jpg

I spy an aluminum Danforth anchor in there :suspect: Still probably about 80lbs

similar to my thread in the 3rd gen section.

I don't generally go to the 2nd gen section, but saw this thread. Lots of good information. Is there a way we can have a common 'how to' section or put this in the fab section?:dunno: I just don't want to miss good information that is not gen specific....maybe i'll just have to swing by teh 2nd gen section more :willy_nilly:

Definetly a crimp>solder connection. I work for Lockheed Martin soo thankfully i have full access to just about every type of DMC crimper and luggers. Once a month our crimp tools get re-calibrated and tested to ensure that each crimp(varies with awg) can hold at least 50ft.lbs of pulling force. For any wiring that will be in a harsh enviroment crimping a connection is your best bet, with a soldered connection you will have solder wick up into the wire, and over time from vibe,stress,pulling and thermal stress you will get a fatigued solder joint that will crack and break. With a crimped connection you dont have to worry about this too much

I'm actually in the process of redoing all the wiring in my car with amphenol and various other mil style connections and sleeving. i will post pics of the finished product.

Zack.

No Zach, you will post pics now, and lots of them, or I will ban you after a mail a package of anthrax and poisonous spiders to your house :rofl:

Jeff's right, this belongs in a different section. I'll move it shortly

haha, You getting jealous Brian?.... I'll snap some photos tomm. Pretty much ebay is the place to get amphenol and amp style circular mil spec connectors and pins.


Zack.

Nope, already did all the mil-spec wiring that needs to be done on my FC. Itching to get started with it on the FD though and always interested to see others top quality wiring work.... gives me motivation to DO IT BETTER THAN YOU MWWAAHAAHAHAAHA!!!!!!

Haha sounds good man.

Zack

I hate working with some people in Lockheed Martin (contract work). I think I'm going to finally order DMC crimp and turret. Not to mention get the cannon plugs. Sigh... more money, less time.

Haha i feel you, we have a lot of young gunho engineers that don't know there ass from there head. It really aggrevates me to see how they treat some of the operators and other engineers. What kind of contract work do you do for Lockheed?

Rocket Propulsion. Oh the stories we could tell...

haha oh yes!!

Zack

Why not do both? We crimp and then solder the connections at our shop because the EMS is very sensitive to resistance. If you crimp for strength and solder for reliability, you get the best of both worlds.

Soldering creates resistance and can introduce corrosion which can lead to even more resistance. Just crimp them and walk away ;)

So where do we want this? Rotary Tech? Fabrication? ECU products?

Plus another thing with soldering connections is that, if you do not clean the flux off when you are done over time that flux can cause many issues with conductivity and integrity of the connection.

Sry for not posting pics yet, i got lazy today. lol.


ZAck.

You're gonna get banned Zach. Just saying. Unless of course your car makes it to DGRR.

I've really been thinking about making the trip. Do you have a link to all the info on the 5 W's and how?

But ok,ok, here's a shot of the connectors themselves. The two small ones are 12pin 16awg connectors, one is for the cas wiring and coils, and the other small one is for the injectors. The bigger one is a 21pin 16awg connector that will be used for all sensors(including all the greddy sensors and a few other things i'm running through) when i finally get the harness out i'll post more.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...c/321eadb7.jpg


Zack.

Why not build an entirely new engine harness?

I would've made an entirely seperate and new harness for the engine, including injectors/CAS. Then used the heavier gauge ones for the power coming off the internal fuse block going through the firewall and all the other headlight/turn signal, washer, horn's everything else in the front of the car and hidden it behind the fender. Hiding it behind the fender with those connectors will be tough though

Did I do bad for just ordering a single plug for passing everything through?

I was looking at the body harness today actually. I couldn't help but think how big and ugly it was. I really wanna slim it donw and hide it. I prob will end up moving it into to te fender. It really only is used for the accessories(lights,markers, turn signals). I'm not using the stock coils nor the wiring for them so it's just taken up space.

Zack.

Another big issue with soldering is that it makes the wire less flexible for a section (where it wicks up) this will cause a stress concentration and fatigue failure at the edge of the solder for any wire that vibrates (like all of them in the engine bay). Crimp is better.

Believe it or not, there's not as much to come out of that harness as you may think. And if you're like me, you put some in. I added Efan relay, fogs, 2 relays for the lights and a horn relay just becuase of how I have everything wired up. The 2 sets of 3-wire 20ga tefzel for the speed sensors.

The AAS can come out as well as a few other things from the engine bay. Tucking it under the fender is a MFPITA!