Best place to fit oil/water senders? impressions pros/cons
 

Hi all

i recently bought a jdm rx7 (stock RHD ) and im gonna start with the reiability mods first of all im gonna replace the AST and want to install gauges...

My problem is... I don't know where to fit the senders... i was planing on get a sandwich and fit oil senders there... but I've read somewhere that with time that location tends to leak...

Im want to install (boost, oil press/temp, water temp)

can you help me?

thx!

I used a sandwich plate for the oil it's been there for 2 yrs now and i don't have any leaking. For water temp i used hose adaptor and i'm not real happy with it. It reads about -10°F from the stock sensor and it doesn't react until the t-stat opens. If your car is stock T into the throttle body hose, you can get all the parts you need from the hardware store for about 10$. If you want to go big you can drill and tap your water pump housing. Boost is easy there are 2 nipples on the UIM you can tap into.

I've done something similar for the water temp sender. I used glowshiftgauges hose adapter though, same with the oil filter sandwich. None of which have been giving me problems.

Another vote for using the throttle-body coolant line for the temp sender. Easy, inexpensive, accurate and you get readings as soon as you start the car, not just after the t-stat opens.
It's also easily reversible if you ever decide you don't need it anymore.

Picture of mine from some years ago if it helps....
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...omstuff003.jpg

Thank you so much!!!! it helps a lot!! because really im very lost on rotaries...

so if i use the sandwich from prosport gauges for example... will be fine? due to im very worried about leaks or something...

I've heard of people drilling and tapping the oil cooler line banjo bolt to accept a sender. Cheap alternative, that's unless your running AN style fittings and if so then nevermind.

Sandwich plate works fine with proper o-rings. I used the Racing Beat one on a first gen for 7 years then a Pineapple one for 5 years and now the REspeed one for 1-1/2 years. No leaks.

For water, the sender with my SPA gauge works in the factory sender location on the rear iron.

Jack

I've never monitored oil temps. Personally I don't see the need to monitor coolant temp AND oil temp. All those gauges in the car start to look silly IMO. For oil pressure I use the stock gauge. OEM senders are a little notorious, but keeping the connection clean has worked well enough for me. I don't think these cars have many oil related failures...unless something aftermarket fails and leaks.

All 3 in 1 gauge, water temp, oil temp, oil pressure
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...C/IMG_1502.jpg

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=14212

That gauge looks really good.... I found something similar in Depo racing gauges... 4 in 1 if i remember correctly... My only problem is that I live on spain... so we're a bit far to make a GB...

well, im gonna get some gauges... with warn, I'm decided to use the prosport filter adapter for oil press/temp senders and for water temp I'm gonna use the TB coolant hose...

Just I've pending where to attach the boost pressure gauge....

btw... can you recommend any good price/quality gauge brand? I'm looking for some temporal solution... not looking directlly for defi or greddy gauges =D

but if you have them used or something we can talk

thx to all!

I ordered that gauge from Hong Kong so that gauge is a lot closer to you then me in the states. My first water temp gauge was a glowshift it was cheap and it did the job. They are very similar to Prosport gauges.

For boost there should be 2 nipples off the passenger side (LHD car) of the Upper intake manifold. 1 will go to your BOV the other you'll use for a boost gauge. (see image where it says boost gauge)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e_diagram2.jpg

I went with RE Amemiya center column gauge. I'm sure i spent a lot more just because of the name on it.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../meth001-1.jpg

I recommend PLX gauges. They have many different types of displays including a 4 in 1. You can also customize the background.

Good to know I'm not the only one wanting to minimize the number of gauges. Having one with multiple displays is kind of cool, as long as it's simple to go from one to another on the fly.
But monitoring both oil and coolant temps still seems redundant. What will oil temps tell you that coolant temps won't...or vice-versa?

I've found something similar... and some time ago... there was a gb to spain for those gauges...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqouOlz74KY

i think for many rx7 users that gauge can be a good option... the only bad thing I've found is they don't have warn/peak alert...

they're cheap and seems like they're good quality

but im still opened to your advise and feedbacks about brands

With 1 oil cooler and a new rad you water temps could be manageable but your oil temps could be super hot when on a track. With hot oil you get low oil pressure which could cause a rebuild just like running hot water. Water and Oil temps are not necessarily related.

Wow that is exactly what my gauge looks like. I'm sure it's just re-branded very cool. Good to know it was a pain to get the Sgear gauge.
http://www.deporacing.com/product_1....key=342&type=B

On my setup for example, the oil temps can get rather hot when pushing it hard for 25minute sessions. And by rather hot I mean 200-210* Water on the other hand tends to stay around 180-185. While sitting in traffic the oil temp can get out of control because there is no movement through the exchangers. I've seen 220* oil temps while sitting in traffic, yet coolant never get's about 185* It's good to know what both are

You're correct, they're not always related.

Hi all

so finally today after some weeks waiting parts... gauges are installed

here is a pic.. i went for an apexi mechanical for boost and 1 depo racing 4 in 1 gauge for the rest...

Attachment 11294

Just im worried about my apexi boost gauge illumination... I hooked it to acc directly.. so gauge will be lighted on all time... can it be bad for the bulb life?

and also... after s 20 mins ride by city with medium traffic my oil temp looks really low...

i got at start 68 F after ride parking and ready to shut down car 95 F
coolant was 68 F at start and after ride 212

those temps are normal for you?

The D and the lettering on that Depo gauge look way too familiar lol. Where did you get that? The De looks like Defi but with po at the end.

Hook your illumination wire up to something that will come on with the headlights. On the FD you can hook it up to the wires for the lights going to either the cigarette lighter or the ash tray for example.

The coolant temp looks like it might be right depending on your setup, maybe a little bit high, but the oil temps look way low. Mine are closer to 200 at least IIRC, and during driving I've seen them get up to around 230 or 240 on warmer days.

^ +1, that way you should be able to adjust brightness with the rest of the dash lights as well. Just (carefully) pull the shifter surround panel and the wire is right there.

I went looking for that Depo 4/1 gauge but not seeing it... do you have a part number for it by chance?

If you hook up the illumination to the headlights, you won't be able to adjust the dimness at all, they will either be on or off. And depending on the type of illumination used on the gauge, you might not be able to dim it even iff hooked up to the proper circuit.

Sure!

they've 4 models...

http://www.miatapasion.com/foros/ima.../relojes/4.jpg

I have to say i'm happy with that gauge...

returning to my illumination problem.... so, where should i fit my apexi gauge then? it just have 2 wires... :o10:

I had mine hooked up to the dimmer switch before, but they still just went on or off, no adjustment. At least if he has them hooked up to the headlights they will be off during the day and on at night. Where should he connect them otherwise?

So your APEX'i gauge is mechanical? If it only has two wires I would think one is power and one is ground and it's mechanical. What color are the wires? Do you have instructions for hooking it up?

nope.. I don't have the isntructions =S... wires are yellow and green... so i think will be safer for bulb gauge if i hook it to some illumination wire... i think im gonna hook it to the iso stereo adapter

Green is probably ground then, but look it up online to make sure first.

I know this is an old thread, but I have a couple questions, I just want to verify that it'll be ok.

I don't have stock gauges in the FD anymore, switched to Speedhut. So I'm thinking about deleting the stock oil pressure sender and putting the aftermarket (Spa Techniques) sender in its place. I'm switching from a Power FC to Adaptronic Select...it shouldn't cause any issues with the ECU, correct? I've been told the stock pressure sender feeds info only to the gauge cluster, not the ECU, but I wanted to make sure.

Also, since I'll only need one more port for the oil temp sender, I've been thinking about getting rid of the sandwich plate I've been using, but I'm trying to think of a good place to mount the sender. I've thought about mounting it in the bottom of the stock oil filter pedestal or in the Mocal thermostat before the oil coolers. I think I've seen someone mount it in the thermostat. If I do either of those I want to make sure it's not obstructing oil flow.

And right now I have the water temp sensor tapped into the water pump housing, right behind the thermostat, because I wanted it in the hottest place on the engine and I figured that would be it. But now seeing that someone else mounted theirs in the stock port, I'm thinking about doing that. Would there be any problems with the ECU by getting rid of the stock water temp sensor or does it feed only the gauge as well?

Any suggestions?

Bash for thread ressurect and I have no idea what you are talking about. :rofl:


So you are running a piggyback ecu still so you are wondering if they will feed signals to the piggyback as they did the stock ecu? If you switch the sender's?

Just make sure and hook the same wires to the new senders and I would think that wouldn't change a thing. Make sure senders send the same values. Anyone else?

Yeah that kinda is what I'm talking about lol. But the sensors are for Spa Techniques gauges, so they won't work with the stock connectors. I'm just wondering if the oil pressure or water temp senders feed the ECU as well as the gauges or just the gauges.

And I'm also wondering if it would be better to mount the oil temp sender in the stock filter pedestal (drill and tap) or in the Mocal thermostat, which I think I've seen a pic of before, just can't remember who did it.

Hmmm I am not sure I am qualified to give advice for this. I would think yes it send a signal to the ecu but it may just go to a dash light for warning. Hmm let me dig through the fsm and see what it has for us.

As far as mounting what's wrong with the sammich?

The stock ECU for purposes of fuel/ign calcs only uses the temp sensor that's on the back of the waterpump housing. The sendors on the rear iron are for just for the gauges.

Datalogging the oil pressure and temp is always a good idea, a better idea is to datalog fuel pressure, that's some good info to have.

As for where to mount the sensors, I wouldn't drill into the Mocal t-stat though, I would get something like this if you're looking for pressure

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...76b2459c43613b


For Temp, well I would get the same adapter on the front cover.... I always found it odd that people datalog the oil temp at the coldest location - after the oil coolers as it goes back into the engine - where the coolant temp is generally tapped is the hottest part, as it comes out of engine.... which is why I kinda want to probe both the front cover and the rear pedestal.... I'll probably end up welding a bung onto the front cover and tapping it that way if it doesn't interfere with the AC belts.

Or from the oil pan...


-Ted

Or that.... more accurate than the pedestal, but still not a true representation.

Ok, as long as the oil pressure sender on the rear iron doesn't feed info to the ECU, I'll put the Spa sender there. Ok I'll get one of those fittings for the oil temp. As much as I'd like to just put the Spa water temp sender in the rear iron, I think I'll leave it where it is since it's hotter there. Or I guess it is anyway. Maybe not, since the stock sender is next to the spark plugs. Maybe I will move it after all. I like the idea of seeing what the shitty stock gauge SHOULD be reading lol.

Thanks Brian!

Anyone that wants to use the coolant or oil ports in the rear iron, they're tapped for 1/8" BSP. It's almost 1/8" NPT, which is what many temp senders are, but not quite. I've seen a lot of people "make them fit". But, when you do that, you'll destroy the threads on the sender and it will probably leak. We stock the 1/8" BSP to 1/8" NPT adapters. Easy peesy.

http://www.lms-efi.com/sunshop/index...t_detail&p=176

Chris is 100% right on that.

The other thing to note Eric, some temp senders are 3/8" NPT, and would require drilling and tapping that fitting IFF it's big enough..... you may be able to get an adapter or drilling/tapping the fitting to 1/4" NPT and getting an adapter from 1/4" Male to 3/8" female.

1/8"BSP - 28 (British Standard Pipe)
1/8"NPT - 27 (National Pipe Thread)

28 TPI versus 27 TPI
TPI = threads per inch


-Ted

Thanks for the heads up guys! The Spa senders are 1/8, but I'm not sure if they're BSP or NPT. I'll have to look on their site. I have fit them into the rear iron, but I'm not sure if it's a perfect fit or not. I'll check and if I need to, I'll get those adapters from Chris.

You can take one with you to NAPA or the like. They should have a thread "comb" to tell you thread count.

SPA may use BSP. The NPT fittings will thread into the BSP ports a couple turns and make you think it's a good match. Then you tighten it down and it all goes wrong.

Quick question to the more experienced guys. Most sites say 210f oil temp is about as high as you want to see on a rotary. This has always seemed low to me. Is it because of where the typical measurement location is (pedestal) which is after the coolers on its way IN to the engine that 210 is considered high? Because it assumes 230+ in the pan or as exits the engine directly after the pump?

I'm debating adding a oil temp gauge to my RX8 as it mostly sees track use, and am debating between a pedestal and the banjo bolt at the first oil cooler. If I put it in the banjo bolt, I'd imagine the scale of "danger" would shift to a higher temp.