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-   -   BNR stage 3's (470whp 400tq) (https://rotarycarclub.com/showthread.php?t=17359)

ball joint 05-14-2013 05:05 PM

BNR stage 3's (470whp 400tq)
 
I haven't had a had chance to completely dial in my tune since I fitted the 4" thick ETS front mount, AEM coils, and external wastegate but I had a chance to dyno the car on Slow Motion Motorsports Dynapack (which is the same dynapack Logan at Defined tunes on). Needless to say; was happy with the results but I know there's still more in it as I was only running 19psi for this pull. I was getting breakup at high RPM as it's still too rich up top but I was still able to get the peak power and torque numbers before it started to breakup at high RPM.

Here's the link to the original thread from when I broke the BNR record which has more details about the build.http://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dy...record-971246/

If you're curious about the external wastegate on the stock frame turbos here's that thread as well.
http://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generatio...-done-1000553/

Time to update this part of your website :-)
"The BNR Stage 3's have the world record on most RWHP made off bolt up hybrid turbochargers for the RX7! 426 RWHP and 365 RWTQ was made at 18 psi of boost! "

http://i.imgur.com/H7keMLSl.jpg

TitaniumTT 05-15-2013 12:41 AM

Curious to what your EGT's and EMAP was.
what are you running for an ECU?
Pump or race gas?
timing and AFRS @ peak TQ?

TitaniumTT 05-15-2013 12:41 AM

Curious to what your EGT's and EMAP was.
what are you running for an ECU?
Pump or race gas?
timing and AFRS @ peak TQ?

ball joint 05-15-2013 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT (Post 243771)
Curious to what your EGT's and EMAP was.
what are you running for an ECU?
Pump or race gas?
timing and AFRS @ peak TQ?

No idea on EGT's and EMAP.
Power FC
Pump gas with water injection 70/30 water/meth
11advance and around 11.0:1 at peak TQ

TitaniumTT 05-15-2013 05:21 PM

Not to be a dick...... but that's quite brave not knowing those two pieces of information when tuning like that....

I would be VERY curious to know what EMAP is and how that external WG dropped it... more importantly - EGT's.

I took my BNR's to under 1B of boost and netted 385wheel in a 3rd gear run on a 6 spd... probably would've been well into the 400's with a 1:1 tranny and stopped tuning there.... EGT's were climbing to 1750 and EMAP was above 2B.... totally ineffiecient.

And not the most obvious question...... with a torque curve like that.... why not go single?

C. Ludwig 05-15-2013 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT (Post 243874)
Not to be a dick....but with a torque curve like that.... why not go single?


.

mazpower 05-15-2013 07:57 PM

I'd love to see this car on a Dyno Dynamics or Superflow dyno. I have yet to see an accurate run on a Dynapack, they're always inflated. Not knocking you OP, in either case impressive numbers for BNRs.

RICE RACING 05-15-2013 09:57 PM

When you test them in real life, like in a car and see how fast they accelerate then you truly know how much power you have :)

Do you have access to a VBOX? I can share heaps of twins cars (BNR's, RF420's, other custom units and stock at up to 1.5bar boost) I have tested and they are MUCH slower irrespective of dyno types used to get the numbers. Check out my web page under VBOX testing and dyno dreams.

http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-ii...ing-tuning.htm < *see where you fit here* see real VBOX power @ wheels and I call dyno dynamics BS machines LOL as they give inflated numbers LOL

Do a simple test of your car in 3rd gear from 90kmh to 140kmh and let me know how fast it is. Lets add it to the FAST FD thread :)
You will be around 3.2 to 3.4 second range is my guess single turbo on lower boost is under 3 seconds as per TTT's comments. and really fast cars are cracking 2 second barrier.with same 470rwhp LOL but its real power based of physics! not dyno guesses with mythical factors in software code :)

FAST FD thread >>>>> http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=14704

RICE RACING 05-16-2013 02:12 AM

I like your project too :) (just read the thread on the external gate mod)

It is the reason why I never went to do it after trying so many vendors twins run in parallel ........... the boost curve and matching torque is always poor.

By example my 82mm compressor 1400bhp capable turbo spools faster and earlier than your twins :) but it is not as cool LOL.......... I think that is what TTT is getting at with his single comments.

The BNR's I tested showed the same power band as you have found and its roughly line ball with a ball bearing GT28 cartridges run in the twins frame in parallel. Just a poor set up really but if you want to do it then its your car :) and everyone is different.

Will be good if you can test it and we can see how fast it is

90kmh to 140kmh in 3rd
100kmh to 200kmh (3rd to 4th) and lets see some numbers

ball joint 05-16-2013 11:58 AM

I'll see if I can get my hands on a V-Box to get numbers. As for the dyno number, on BNR's website the power numbers they list are from GoodfellaFD3s when he ran them, and he did it on a Dynapak. This Dynapak is the same Dynapak that Logan at Defined tunes on, so if my numbers are BS; then so are the numbers he makes on his N/A 3-rotor.

As for why I haven't gone single, for the same reason that I tune rotary's, it's different and it's unexplored territory. I will go single one of these days, but until then I want to see what is possible with the stock frame turbos.

Thanks for all the compliments!

JhnRX7 05-16-2013 01:03 PM

I believe what Rice is saying is that using a dyno to rate the performance of your car is ill conceived as each dyno reads a bit differently (even between same manufactures) and it is not accurately comparable. Dyno's are primarily a tuning tool regardless of how the masses actually use them.

Using a V-Box or similar GPS based performance meter you can accurately measure the rate of acceleration of your car. This can then be directly compared to the measured figures of other cars to give you a good baseline of the performance of your car. Granted, doing this correctly is slightly more difficult than strapping your car down to a dyno because you will likely be breaking any posted speed limits and you need a flat stretch of clear road.

TitaniumTT 05-16-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 243945)
When you test them in real life, like in a car and see how fast they accelerate then you truly know how much power you have :)

Do you have access to a VBOX? I can share heaps of twins cars (BNR's, RF420's, other custom units and stock at up to 1.5bar boost) I have tested and they are MUCH slower irrespective of dyno types used to get the numbers. Check out my web page under VBOX testing and dyno dreams.

http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-ii...ing-tuning.htm < *see where you fit here* see real VBOX power @ wheels and I call dyno dynamics BS machines LOL as they give inflated numbers LOL

Do a simple test of your car in 3rd gear from 90kmh to 140kmh and let me know how fast it is. Lets add it to the FAST FD thread :)
You will be around 3.2 to 3.4 second range is my guess single turbo on lower boost is under 3 seconds as per TTT's comments. and really fast cars are cracking 2 second barrier.with same 470rwhp LOL but its real power based of physics! not dyno guesses with mythical factors in software code :)

FAST FD thread >>>>> http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ad.php?t=14704

Truff.... I need to find a VBox.... I believe a poster or 2 in this thread have one....

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 243953)
I like your project too :) (just read the thread on the external gate mod)

I like it as well... I've said for years that the turbo's are capable, but the mani and the plumbing are what really hold them back.... then again, I'm logging EMAP and the individual compressor outputs and pre-intercooler AIT's... I'm not just guess :001_005:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 243953)
It is the reason why I never went to do it after trying so many vendors twins run in parallel ........... the boost curve and matching torque is always poor.

By example my 82mm compressor 1400bhp capable turbo spools faster and earlier than your twins :) but it is not as cool LOL.......... I think that is what TTT is getting at with his single comments.

Basically exactely what I'm getting at....

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING (Post 243953)
Will be good if you can test it and we can see how fast it is

90kmh to 140kmh in 3rd
100kmh to 200kmh (3rd to 4th) and lets see some numbers

That....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ball joint (Post 243991)
I'll see if I can get my hands on a V-Box to get numbers. As for the dyno number, on BNR's website the power numbers they list are from GoodfellaFD3s when he ran them, and he did it on a Dynapak. This Dynapak is the same Dynapak that Logan at Defined tunes on, so if my numbers are BS; then so are the numbers he makes on his N/A 3-rotor.

As for why I haven't gone single, for the same reason that I tune rotary's, it's different and it's unexplored territory. I will go single one of these days, but until then I want to see what is possible with the stock frame turbos.

Thanks for all the compliments!

In that case.... go for it! Personally I got tired of replacing cartridges 2-4 times a year so I gave up with the twin idea... on the stock mani :suspect:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JhnRX7 (Post 244015)
I believe what Rice is saying is that using a dyno to rate the performance of your car is ill conceived as each dyno reads a bit differently (even between same manufactures) and it is not accurately comparable. Dyno's are primarily a tuning tool regardless of how the masses actually use them.

THAT..... although... I've been "street tuning" my car for years now... there are certain places you cannot get to on a dyno, and certain places you can't get to on the street....

Quote:

Originally Posted by JhnRX7 (Post 244015)
Using a V-Box or similar GPS based performance meter you can accurately measure the rate of acceleration of your car. This can then be directly compared to the measured figures of other cars to give you a good baseline of the performance of your car. Granted, doing this correctly is slightly more difficult than strapping your car down to a dyno because you will likely be breaking any posted speed limits and you need a flat stretch of clear road.

John, you and Dan have a VBox correct? That's not the box I used @ Lightning that day is it?

ball joint 05-16-2013 07:07 PM

I've been looking more into EMap since your suggestion and have found conflicting advice. What sensor/method do you recommend in order to best log EMAP?

TheDriver216 05-16-2013 08:22 PM

Grats man!!!!... is it going to be at the B3R dyno day?

TitaniumTT 05-16-2013 09:56 PM

I use a standard GM 3B MAP sensor with 2' of SS -3hardline and some -3 braided line to shed the heat. I also have a pretty trick billet mount with an o-ring seal and 1/8" NPT threads


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