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Whizbang · 09-10-2008, 09:49 PM

TII vs. NA Compatibility

These must be cross compared to the S4/S5 compat. information. Anything not mentioned, presume swappable.

Engine
-Engine internals:
------>Rotors: Yes, but different compression ratios. Will need counter weights as well to match the rotor set.
------>E-Shaft: yes.
------>Intermediate Plate: Yes, but port timing differences exist.
------>End Plates: Yes, but the NA version has the 5th and 6th ports. the turbo models do not.
------>Housings: Identical minus the exhaust sleeves. The turbo sleeves do not have the diffuser. Rear turbo S4 housings have threaded port for the knock sensor.
------>Front Cover: Yes, but the turbo front cover has an oil return inlet
------>Oil Pump: Yes, but there is a difference between the turbo and non turbo pumps. The turbo pump is a slightly nicer improvement over the non turbo pumps, yielding slightly higher oil pressures and more flow.

-Fuel Injectors: yes, but as noted in sections above, the Turbo injectors where 550cc, and the NAs 460cc. Also, the connectors for the injectors are shaped different for low and high impedance to prevent accidental swaps.
-Fuel Pump: yes. TII model flows more. but its better to get a FD pump for cheap or a Walbro or similar.
-Radiators: Identical, variance found in manual vs automatic transmissions.
-Water Pump: Not swappable. The turbo model has a provision for coolant line running to the turbocharger.
-MAF sensor: Not swappable, reads differently.
-Coil Packs: They are the same, don't let anyone charge you more for "TII" coils, when they are the same coil, and the same part number as ones from an NA.
-Intake Manifold: The short answer is no. as NA models are 6port, turbo models are 4port. The manifolds will not line up when interchanged without major modification. If rebuilding your engine, things can be done to remedy this problem.
-Throttle Body: Somewhat. Can be with bit of work.
-Throttle Cable: Yes, longer for the TII by a significant amount as it wraps around the front of the engine. Will need to reverse the throttle rotor on the TB to do so.
-ECUS: No. See "ECU CODES"

Driveline
-Transmission: Yes. TII is a beefier unit. But requires all related parts below in order to be swapped.
-Driveshaft: Required for trans. swap. due to longer dimesion of turbo transmission.
-Axles: Required for trans. swap due to different size of diff.
-Slave Cylinder: May or may not be required, i believe the rod is longer on the turbo transmission.
-Differential: Not Required, but a good recommended upgrade. Will work with turbo driveshaft.
-Flywheel / Pressure Plate / Clutch: Required for trans. swap. Different diameter, TII flywheel is a single plane unit, while the NT is a stepped piece. Splines are also different.
**Supposedly you can use the TII transmission and NA Diff and use an Automatic drive shaft to make it a bolt up deal...not positive, but this has come up several times***

Suspension
-Sway Bars:No for certain models. The TII, GTUs and GXL sway bars are the same. Not sure about later S5 models. If in doubt, the rule of thumb is that if the car has LSD, it probably has the same exact sway bar. This holds true for most of the suspension items. For vehicles which do not have a LSD installed, changing the sway bars to ones from a model which did will cause under steering, as the sway bars where meant to compensate for the effects of the LSD in cornering.

Body/Interior
-Gauge Cluster: Sorta, the Turbo version has a "boost" gauge in place of a voltmeter on the NA models. The NA can go onto the TII version, and for whatever reason the Voltmeter will work.
-TII Seats: Yes. And they are a hell of alot more comfortable. If you see black leather TII seats in a parts car. Steal them!!
-Body Panels: all are swappable. Hood is scooped for use with top mounted intercooler. Turbo models for the S5 did come with a front chin spoiler and a factory aero kit.
-Chin Spoiler: On the S5 turbo models. Hard to come by, will fit any S5 bumper. may require minor modification to existing bumper to mount.
-Hood: Swappable. Better than a steel hood (assuming a aluminum TII hood is sourced) but does add 0.01 to the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) of the car.

Convertible Vs. Coupe

There are a number of details the convertible models have (cabriolet in foreign markets) over the standard coupes. These are as follows:

Additional cross member was added on the under side of the car. (this can cause interference with engine swaps)
Sills where produced in a heavier gauge of steel
Extra plates where welded to the floor pan and transmission tunnel
The door posts where strengthened

These additions added close to 264 lbs (120kg) to the car.

No convertible came with a spoiler.
For 1988 and 1989 convertibles, a 3.91 final drive was used (same as automatic coupes), even on manual transmission cars.
Aluminum hood was standard on convertibles whereas only Turbo II (US) and 1988 GTU and GTUs models had an aluminum hood.
The Cd of a convertible was 0.34 with top up or 0.39 with top down as compared to a GXL with a Cd of 0.30 or 0.29 with Aero Kit package
BBS 6.5Jx15 wheels where standard on US spec convertibles. Foreign market saw a mix of wheels. The only coupes that came with the BBS 6.5Jx15 wheels where the Anfini I and II models.

09-10-2008, 09:49 PM	#3
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	TII vs. NA Compatibility These must be cross compared to the S4/S5 compat. information. Anything not mentioned, presume swappable. Engine -Engine internals: ------>Rotors: Yes, but different compression ratios. Will need counter weights as well to match the rotor set. ------>E-Shaft: yes. ------>Intermediate Plate: Yes, but port timing differences exist. ------>End Plates: Yes, but the NA version has the 5th and 6th ports. the turbo models do not. ------>Housings: Identical minus the exhaust sleeves. The turbo sleeves do not have the diffuser. Rear turbo S4 housings have threaded port for the knock sensor. ------>Front Cover: Yes, but the turbo front cover has an oil return inlet ------>Oil Pump: Yes, but there is a difference between the turbo and non turbo pumps. The turbo pump is a slightly nicer improvement over the non turbo pumps, yielding slightly higher oil pressures and more flow. -Fuel Injectors: yes, but as noted in sections above, the Turbo injectors where 550cc, and the NAs 460cc. Also, the connectors for the injectors are shaped different for low and high impedance to prevent accidental swaps. -Fuel Pump: yes. TII model flows more. but its better to get a FD pump for cheap or a Walbro or similar. -Radiators: Identical, variance found in manual vs automatic transmissions. -Water Pump: Not swappable. The turbo model has a provision for coolant line running to the turbocharger. -MAF sensor: Not swappable, reads differently. -Coil Packs: They are the same, don't let anyone charge you more for "TII" coils, when they are the same coil, and the same part number as ones from an NA. -Intake Manifold: The short answer is no. as NA models are 6port, turbo models are 4port. The manifolds will not line up when interchanged without major modification. If rebuilding your engine, things can be done to remedy this problem. -Throttle Body: Somewhat. Can be with bit of work. -Throttle Cable: Yes, longer for the TII by a significant amount as it wraps around the front of the engine. Will need to reverse the throttle rotor on the TB to do so. -ECUS: No. See "ECU CODES" Driveline -Transmission: Yes. TII is a beefier unit. But requires all related parts below in order to be swapped. -Driveshaft: Required for trans. swap. due to longer dimesion of turbo transmission. -Axles: Required for trans. swap due to different size of diff. -Slave Cylinder: May or may not be required, i believe the rod is longer on the turbo transmission. -Differential: Not Required, but a good recommended upgrade. Will work with turbo driveshaft. -Flywheel / Pressure Plate / Clutch: Required for trans. swap. Different diameter, TII flywheel is a single plane unit, while the NT is a stepped piece. Splines are also different. Supposedly you can use the TII transmission and NA Diff and use an Automatic drive shaft to make it a bolt up deal...not positive, but this has come up several times* Suspension -Sway Bars:No for certain models. The TII, GTUs and GXL sway bars are the same. Not sure about later S5 models. If in doubt, the rule of thumb is that if the car has LSD, it probably has the same exact sway bar. This holds true for most of the suspension items. For vehicles which do not have a LSD installed, changing the sway bars to ones from a model which did will cause under steering, as the sway bars where meant to compensate for the effects of the LSD in cornering. Body/Interior -Gauge Cluster: Sorta, the Turbo version has a "boost" gauge in place of a voltmeter on the NA models. The NA can go onto the TII version, and for whatever reason the Voltmeter will work. -TII Seats: Yes. And they are a hell of alot more comfortable. If you see black leather TII seats in a parts car. Steal them!! -Body Panels: all are swappable. Hood is scooped for use with top mounted intercooler. Turbo models for the S5 did come with a front chin spoiler and a factory aero kit. -Chin Spoiler: On the S5 turbo models. Hard to come by, will fit any S5 bumper. may require minor modification to existing bumper to mount. -Hood: Swappable. Better than a steel hood (assuming a aluminum TII hood is sourced) but does add 0.01 to the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) of the car. Convertible Vs. Coupe There are a number of details the convertible models have (cabriolet in foreign markets) over the standard coupes. These are as follows: Additional cross member was added on the under side of the car. (this can cause interference with engine swaps) Sills where produced in a heavier gauge of steel Extra plates where welded to the floor pan and transmission tunnel The door posts where strengthened These additions added close to 264 lbs (120kg) to the car. No convertible came with a spoiler. For 1988 and 1989 convertibles, a 3.91 final drive was used (same as automatic coupes), even on manual transmission cars. Aluminum hood was standard on convertibles whereas only Turbo II (US) and 1988 GTU and GTUs models had an aluminum hood. The Cd of a convertible was 0.34 with top up or 0.39 with top down as compared to a GXL with a Cd of 0.30 or 0.29 with Aero Kit package BBS 6.5Jx15 wheels where standard on US spec convertibles. Foreign market saw a mix of wheels. The only coupes that came with the BBS 6.5Jx15 wheels where the Anfini I and II models. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook Last edited by Whizbang; 02-11-2009 at 10:08 PM.