Newbie looking at an 83 13B -- risky?

JonnyVon · 02-10-2009, 11:17 PM

I've been watching Craigslist for some time now waiting for a good RX-7 to come up (and saving up meanwhiles), and I found one locally that's going for $650 minimum:

http://omaha.craigslist.org/cto/1028558495.html

I haven't seen it in person so I don't know the extent of the body damage (obviously rust needs work, dents need to be hammered out or the panels replaced), nor the mechanical condition. But, would the aftermarket modifications be any cause for concern, at least in terms of extra maintenance charges incurred? (I do intend to learn how to fix things up myself, at least as far as it's practical.) Also, any particular trouble spots from that model year to look out for?

Finally, my basic question is, would spending $650 on this car, and then tacking on parts and labor I can't do myself, run me more overall than it would to save up $2000 or $3000 and go for an RX-7 of a similar year in better shape?

Apologies if I'm overlooking anything glaringly obvious, it'll be my first foray into rotaries, and I haven't been lurking the forums for long.

Phoenix7 · 02-10-2009, 11:31 PM

I've heard of cheaper, better cars so give it a shot.

Do you know anyone with rotary experience?

JonnyVon · 02-10-2009, 11:41 PM

I can't say I do. I have a few friends who are experienced with cars in general (pistons, obviously). I'm in a fairly large Midwest city, so there ought to be a few people out there who could help me...

Phoenix7 · 02-11-2009, 12:24 AM

ok, well first you MUST request that the car be COLD when you go see it (go early in the AM).

-This is to check the coolant seals. They tend to expand when the car is warm and contract when cold IF THEY ARE DAMAGED. IF IT'S COLD then turn it on and step outside. Check the exhaust. If you see any WHITE smoke then the coolant seals are toasty (you have to take the motor apart to fix it and some just rebuild while it's all in pieces). If you see this then walk away.

get a compression tester You should get 90+ psi per face, per rotor.

It should have a smooth idle, no lumpiness, misses or vaccuum leaks.

Check the fluids, any and all rotary owners KNOW to ALWAYS keep the fluids topped off and frequent oil changes.

If it idles fine, no fluid leaks, and everything looks good, then go for a drive.

It should feel smooth and linear from idle to redline (don't forget to ask to redline first, nobody likes ppl abusing their cars, especially during a test drive) with no hesitations.

The rest is like any other car, suspension, tranny, etc., etc.

Look at this site for a more thorough list of things to check:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/h2b.html

Good lluck and DO NOT RUSH INTO THINGS. my Rotary cost 5500 + 4600 to replace the motor a few months later.....I was NOT happy. Don't let it happen to you

PercentSevenC · 02-11-2009, 01:15 AM

This is a carbed motor, with a two-barrel, no less. It may well not have a perfect idle. I mean, it shouldn't be too rough, but a misfire at idle every now and then is nothing to worry about. My car certainly didn't idle perfectly when it had the 45 DCOE. It's all in the tuning.

White smoke at cold startup could just be steam from condensation inside the exhaust and such. You've only got bad coolant seals if you're actually losing coolant. If the exhaust smells "sweet", that indicates bad coolant seals.

From the sounds of things the owner isn't clueless. It's a decent deal if the damage is minor and it passes a ghetto compression test. But you'll have to be willing to get your hands dirty.

Kentetsu · 02-11-2009, 10:38 AM

I would rather find a rough or non-running 7 than take one with rust. There's just no way to beat rust, and it will only get worse as the years go by. Usually, what you can see externally is only the tip of the iceberg...

orion84gsl · 02-11-2009, 08:36 PM

Providing the rust in front of the wheels your talking about is where I think it is than that is a notorious area for these cars to rust. It requires cutting out every bit of rust and welding in new metal. This is due to the rear upper control arm mounting bracket not being fully welded and sealed at the factory. Water gets in and just destroys the inner fenders. It's a bit of a job to fix, I have only a patch on the drivers side of mine, luckily I think the passenger side is ok FOR NOW. Go take a look at it and see if you really see yourself fixing it up, but keep looking at the same time. You are better off saving the money for a better example and having less headache fixing problems. Also a stock car is easier to start with because there are owners that do modifications that they are happy with but are not exactly well done.

JonnyVon · 02-12-2009, 12:04 AM

Thanks for all the advice, folks. I'm asking the owner the basic "How well did you keep the car up?" questions over e-mail and hopefully I'll have a chance to check it out in person soon, and take it to a Mazda/rotary-knowledgeable mechanic if it's promising enough. The rust work does sound like a bit of a challenge, I don't have metalworking experience myself. We shall see.

JonnyVon · 02-13-2009, 01:09 AM

I talked to the owner over the phone today. My basic impression is that the engine is sound and it runs well, but it'll need plenty of polishing around the edges.

The pretty-good: 160k on the chassis. The motor is non-original and starts well with the choke on, smokes a little at startup but not after, not sure if it has stock seals or not; it's been compression-tested and apparently passed that properly. The guy has a lot of spare/aftermarket parts available, but he personally only put in the new clutch and rear brake shoes. The heat and air work fine and there's a new radiator, hoses, thermostat, and oil fluid brake lines at least. The lights work and pop up fine. Also, it's in premix mode.

The bad: It'll take cosmetic work. Rust will have to be dealt with, the front fender is on but should be replaced (bashed in some), and the paint job it was given was okay but is peeling on the fender and I'll almost surely wind up repainting the car to match replacement parts. The door seals will need to be replaced, and there's a tape deck in it but the wiring is flaky; the back two speakers aren't there but the front two work. It could use new shocks, and he wants to give me a better rear end with it. The shocks could stand replacement (which he also has lying around), the bushes are worn, and the handling is a bit loose. The water pump gasket is leaking a bit, as well.

Did I miss anything I should ask for when I check the car out in person? The feeling I get sight-unseen is that the car will certainly drive but I can keep myself plenty busy during the spring putting it in better mechanical shape and improving the cosmetics.

Rotary84 · 02-13-2009, 01:03 PM

you definitely have to test drive the car and make sure u dont baby it while on the drive. This sounds like a fun project, Not impossible but alot of work on your hands if you do it yourself. If you bring it to the shop you will spend big bucks keep us posted and if you can get pics so we can help you out even more

Rotarydave · 02-13-2009, 01:21 PM

If it is your 1st 7 then 650 is not to bad that way you can beat it around more and later on pull the engine to put into a nicer chassis 160k miles with the rust they are talking about that chassis will not last long

DAVE

prrex4ever · 02-13-2009, 01:39 PM

If it's a GSL-SE those are a little uncommon and a good find depending on the condition of course. They had the 13B instead of the 12A, and the first fuel-injected instead of carburetor rotary and had had some other upgrades as well.

JonnyVon · 02-13-2009, 02:15 PM

It's a GS, apparently they swapped a 13B into it but it's carbed.

Would it be impractical to hunt junkyards for replacement body parts instead of just plugging the engine into a new chassis at some point?

Whizbang · 02-13-2009, 02:47 PM

unibody chassis rust replacement isnt really like a rusty fender.

JonnyVon · 02-13-2009, 03:49 PM

Given I'd probably have to give it a new chassis at some point, plus all the little fixups it's demanding now, I think I'm going to go for one that's been better kept-up and is more stock. There's another one on Craigslist for $1500 (http://omaha.craigslist.org/cto/1033155856.html) where the only rust the owner knows of is a 1x2" spot below the driver's side door, and it just needs the choke repaired, carb tuned, and a couple other small items. I'm going to try to go for that one.

02-10-2009, 11:17 PM	#1
JonnyVon The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Newbie looking at an 83 13B -- risky? I've been watching Craigslist for some time now waiting for a good RX-7 to come up (and saving up meanwhiles), and I found one locally that's going for $650 minimum: http://omaha.craigslist.org/cto/1028558495.html I haven't seen it in person so I don't know the extent of the body damage (obviously rust needs work, dents need to be hammered out or the panels replaced), nor the mechanical condition. But, would the aftermarket modifications be any cause for concern, at least in terms of extra maintenance charges incurred? (I do intend to learn how to fix things up myself, at least as far as it's practical.) Also, any particular trouble spots from that model year to look out for? Finally, my basic question is, would spending $650 on this car, and then tacking on parts and labor I can't do myself, run me more overall than it would to save up $2000 or $3000 and go for an RX-7 of a similar year in better shape? Apologies if I'm overlooking anything glaringly obvious, it'll be my first foray into rotaries, and I haven't been lurking the forums for long.

02-13-2009, 02:47 PM	#14
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 21	unibody chassis rust replacement isnt really like a rusty fender. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

02-10-2009, 11:41 PM	#3
JonnyVon The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	I can't say I do. I have a few friends who are experienced with cars in general (pistons, obviously). I'm in a fairly large Midwest city, so there ought to be a few people out there who could help me...

02-11-2009, 10:38 AM	#6
Kentetsu RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts: 530 Rep Power: 18	I would rather find a rough or non-running 7 than take one with rust. There's just no way to beat rust, and it will only get worse as the years go by. Usually, what you can see externally is only the tip of the iceberg...

02-11-2009, 08:36 PM	#7
orion84gsl Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 167 Rep Power: 18	Providing the rust in front of the wheels your talking about is where I think it is than that is a notorious area for these cars to rust. It requires cutting out every bit of rust and welding in new metal. This is due to the rear upper control arm mounting bracket not being fully welded and sealed at the factory. Water gets in and just destroys the inner fenders. It's a bit of a job to fix, I have only a patch on the drivers side of mine, luckily I think the passenger side is ok FOR NOW. Go take a look at it and see if you really see yourself fixing it up, but keep looking at the same time. You are better off saving the money for a better example and having less headache fixing problems. Also a stock car is easier to start with because there are owners that do modifications that they are happy with but are not exactly well done.

02-12-2009, 12:04 AM	#8
JonnyVon The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for all the advice, folks. I'm asking the owner the basic "How well did you keep the car up?" questions over e-mail and hopefully I'll have a chance to check it out in person soon, and take it to a Mazda/rotary-knowledgeable mechanic if it's promising enough. The rust work does sound like a bit of a challenge, I don't have metalworking experience myself. We shall see.

02-13-2009, 01:09 AM	#9
JonnyVon The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	I talked to the owner over the phone today. My basic impression is that the engine is sound and it runs well, but it'll need plenty of polishing around the edges. The pretty-good: 160k on the chassis. The motor is non-original and starts well with the choke on, smokes a little at startup but not after, not sure if it has stock seals or not; it's been compression-tested and apparently passed that properly. The guy has a lot of spare/aftermarket parts available, but he personally only put in the new clutch and rear brake shoes. The heat and air work fine and there's a new radiator, hoses, thermostat, and oil fluid brake lines at least. The lights work and pop up fine. Also, it's in premix mode. The bad: It'll take cosmetic work. Rust will have to be dealt with, the front fender is on but should be replaced (bashed in some), and the paint job it was given was okay but is peeling on the fender and I'll almost surely wind up repainting the car to match replacement parts. The door seals will need to be replaced, and there's a tape deck in it but the wiring is flaky; the back two speakers aren't there but the front two work. It could use new shocks, and he wants to give me a better rear end with it. The shocks could stand replacement (which he also has lying around), the bushes are worn, and the handling is a bit loose. The water pump gasket is leaking a bit, as well. Did I miss anything I should ask for when I check the car out in person? The feeling I get sight-unseen is that the car will certainly drive but I can keep myself plenty busy during the spring putting it in better mechanical shape and improving the cosmetics.

02-13-2009, 01:03 PM	#10
Rotary84 The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 19 Rep Power: 0	you definitely have to test drive the car and make sure u dont baby it while on the drive. This sounds like a fun project, Not impossible but alot of work on your hands if you do it yourself. If you bring it to the shop you will spend big bucks keep us posted and if you can get pics so we can help you out even more

02-13-2009, 01:21 PM	#11
Rotarydave Rotary Nut Case Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Cibolo, TX Posts: 273 Rep Power: 17	If it is your 1st 7 then 650 is not to bad that way you can beat it around more and later on pull the engine to put into a nicer chassis 160k miles with the rust they are talking about that chassis will not last long DAVE

02-13-2009, 01:39 PM	#12
prrex4ever Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 274 Rep Power: 17	If it's a GSL-SE those are a little uncommon and a good find depending on the condition of course. They had the 13B instead of the 12A, and the first fuel-injected instead of carburetor rotary and had had some other upgrades as well.

02-13-2009, 02:15 PM	#13
JonnyVon The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	It's a GS, apparently they swapped a 13B into it but it's carbed. Would it be impractical to hunt junkyards for replacement body parts instead of just plugging the engine into a new chassis at some point?

02-13-2009, 03:49 PM	#15
JonnyVon The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	Given I'd probably have to give it a new chassis at some point, plus all the little fixups it's demanding now, I think I'm going to go for one that's been better kept-up and is more stock. There's another one on Craigslist for $1500 (http://omaha.craigslist.org/cto/1033155856.html) where the only rust the owner knows of is a 1x2" spot below the driver's side door, and it just needs the choke repaired, carb tuned, and a couple other small items. I'm going to try to go for that one.