Dedicated track tire?

***TitaniumTT*** · 06-12-2011, 03:13 PM

In less than 2 weeks I'll be @ Lime Rock and I'm left wondering if I should just bite the bullet and get a dedicated set of race rubber? I've got a set of 3yo toyo ra1's but I've never been able to really use them. Most of the events I do are autox, but the car really neeeds to be on a track. The dunlop direzza Z1SS's that I've been running have been ok, but can always be better. So, should I take the plunge and get a dedicated track tire and if so, what's out there. I'm thinking that while the A6's would be nest for what I do most of, ill end up killing them at Lime Rock. Thoughts? Opinions?

RotorDad · 06-12-2011, 09:12 PM

Well I'm personally a fan of the Kumho V710's. They are not as bad as some of the other tires within their range as far as price go either, which is a plus considering the fact they are track tires & will need to be replaced often. The A6 when new are slightly stickier, but that doesn't last long. The V710's are a good all around track tire (affordable, sticky & wears decent). If I remember right the V710's were rated better then the BFG R1, Michelin Sport Cup & Advan A048. Just my thoughts, I'm sure someone here who has seen more track time & tried other tires will have a better idea of what to use.

MaczPayne · 06-13-2011, 12:01 AM

Try Nitto NT01's

That's what I'll be running next

RETed · 06-13-2011, 04:01 AM

I'm assuming you're running at least 17"...18"?
http://www.hoosiertire.com/gt.htm

These will run rings around everything that has been mentioned so far.

-Ted

Brent · 11-18-2011, 10:39 AM

I know this thread is several months old, but for continuity sake, I'll add a few of my experiences. If you are new to driving on track, do NOT use an R Compound tire. They mask mistakes. Sure, you'll be faster on them immediately, but you cheat yourself out of learning the fundamentals... which generally reduce your range of learning, making you slower long term as your peers continue to progress. One again, not directed at TTT as I don't know his driving background. Just in general.

For a track day, I'd go with an "extreme performance summer" or whatever they are called now. Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, Nitto NT05 Kumho XS, Advan AD08, Falken Azensis RT615, etc... GRM does a very comprehensive test involving these tires every year. This year has been even better than previous. I personally love the Z1 Star Specs of the ones listed above. They come in a pretty good range of sizes and are relatively cheap comparitively. In 09 when I got back from the last deployment, I purchased a set of star specs to make sure I shook the rust off and hadn't developed any bad habits since I'd been gone for 15 months. I fully expected to wear the tire out and move back to an R Compound. I want to say around 15 track days, 5000 street miles, and a few AutoX's later... they still had around 60% tread left. The other thing of note about the Star Spec's is they seem to have more consistant/sustained grip than some of the other tires I've ran. For example, the Falken 615's tend to get greasy after a couple of sessions. The Star Specs grip at the start of the session and always held on consistantly through the duration of however long the session lasted. I've seen alot of Lemon's/ChumpCar's run these tires for the same reason.

Once you are ready to make the jump to R Compounds, most people jump to a middle of the road r compound tire, like the Nitto NT01. These tend to be a little sticker when shaved new, but you give up over all life of the tire. I don't reccommend it. If you are competing, you generally aren't going to be competitive on this tire.

The "top" tier for us grassroots guys are the Hoosier R6 and A6, Kumho V710, and the new Goodyear tire(not readily available). I'm very partial to Hoosier as they offer a great contingency for us. They also offer the fastest tire, period. Hard to argue with that. Depending on the car will determine how long each tire lasts.

The Hoosier A6 is the fastest for the Road Course. They are a must have for Time Trials. I know plenty of people that have road raced on A6's for several years now as well. Some have had issues with heat management and making them last for the entire race. Most don't. Driver style has alot to do with that. Another great thing about the A6 is grip is there immediately. That produces alot of driver confidence at the start of a race knowing that the grip will be there to control the car. It'll take other tires a couple of laps to get up to temp.

Kumho V710's are a really awesome tire as well. They last forever and are also a tire that is great for AutoX and the Track. Not quite as fast as an A6, but generally last longer.

R6 is a little harder of a compound making it a little slower than the A6, but has a better heat range for longer events(obviously).

Again, understand this is seveal months old. Just sharing some of my experience in this thread for future reference.

My5ABaby · 11-18-2011, 10:57 AM

I had my RT615s get a little sloppy at Talladega (slow course) in my 86 N/A... I'm not sure if the 615Ks are an improvement, but if they're like the 615s, I'd probably not recommend them for a faster car/track.

josh18_2k · 11-18-2011, 02:51 PM

+1 for V710's. its amazing how long they last, considering their grip. I cant speak for track, but they will easily last 2x as long as a6's in autocross, without being too much slower. they still take wins at nationals, altho not many (their contingency sucks, so that doesnt help). others who have driven both say that the a6 actually falls off worse than the 710's in the tail end of their life as well. 710's are also much easier+cheaper to find used. just about no used a6 is worth buying.

Kentetsu · 11-18-2011, 04:38 PM

I've been running Hankook rubber for autocross (new this summer) and love them. I'm killing Miatas on the 255/13 Hoosiers easily. Everyone comes over to check out the tires I'm running, and I've had many people comment on how well they are wearing. They also seem to be performing as well on their 7th event as they did on their first, without any of the performance "fall-off" that the Hoosiers are known for.

This is, of course, an autocross compound, but they also come in a track compound which is supposed to be just as good. They're also about 35% cheaper than A6s. So far they seem to be a damned good tire, even if they cost as much as the Hoosiers.

.

Brent · 11-19-2011, 12:03 AM

I assume you are talking about the C91's? I agree, another really good tire. C91 is the equivalent of the A6. C71 is the equivalent of the R6. Both good tires. C91 isn't quite as fast as the A6, but may last longer in the AutoX.

One Caveat for the track stuff, I run A6's until the cord. We always make the joke that they are the fastest right before they cord.

wanksta · 01-28-2012, 04:52 PM

I agree with Brent on using the Star Specs until you have everything else sorted out (car and driver). We use the Star Spec on our Chump Car as its limited to 200+ tread rating. They outperform every other tire we've tried and last as good or better. Plus its the only ones we've used that still had the same grip after being heat cycled once. Amazingly, they tend to be fastest right before they are worn to the wear bars, which means a good value and lots of laps for your money.

06-12-2011, 03:13 PM	#1
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Dedicated track tire? In less than 2 weeks I'll be @ Lime Rock and I'm left wondering if I should just bite the bullet and get a dedicated set of race rubber? I've got a set of 3yo toyo ra1's but I've never been able to really use them. Most of the events I do are autox, but the car really neeeds to be on a track. The dunlop direzza Z1SS's that I've been running have been ok, but can always be better. So, should I take the plunge and get a dedicated track tire and if so, what's out there. I'm thinking that while the A6's would be nest for what I do most of, ill end up killing them at Lime Rock. Thoughts? Opinions? __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

06-12-2011, 09:12 PM	#2
RotorDad Big Ugly Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fredericksburg, Va Posts: 591 Rep Power: 17	Well I'm personally a fan of the Kumho V710's. They are not as bad as some of the other tires within their range as far as price go either, which is a plus considering the fact they are track tires & will need to be replaced often. The A6 when new are slightly stickier, but that doesn't last long. The V710's are a good all around track tire (affordable, sticky & wears decent). If I remember right the V710's were rated better then the BFG R1, Michelin Sport Cup & Advan A048. Just my thoughts, I'm sure someone here who has seen more track time & tried other tires will have a better idea of what to use. __________________ *Boosted Big Body On 335's* PS3 ID: Rotordad 1986 Mazda RX7 GXL - Street ported 13BT, Haltech, 62mm, ect. 2006 MazdaSpeed 6 - Eagle, Wiseco, Cobb, ect.

06-13-2011, 12:01 AM	#3
MaczPayne Bah! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Riverside, SoCal Posts: 442 Rep Power: 18	Try Nitto NT01's That's what I'll be running next __________________ Johnson TA FC in the works!

11-18-2011, 10:39 AM	#5
Brent Sua Sponte Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 839 Rep Power: 18	I know this thread is several months old, but for continuity sake, I'll add a few of my experiences. If you are new to driving on track, do NOT use an R Compound tire. They mask mistakes. Sure, you'll be faster on them immediately, but you cheat yourself out of learning the fundamentals... which generally reduce your range of learning, making you slower long term as your peers continue to progress. One again, not directed at TTT as I don't know his driving background. Just in general. For a track day, I'd go with an "extreme performance summer" or whatever they are called now. Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, Nitto NT05 Kumho XS, Advan AD08, Falken Azensis RT615, etc... GRM does a very comprehensive test involving these tires every year. This year has been even better than previous. I personally love the Z1 Star Specs of the ones listed above. They come in a pretty good range of sizes and are relatively cheap comparitively. In 09 when I got back from the last deployment, I purchased a set of star specs to make sure I shook the rust off and hadn't developed any bad habits since I'd been gone for 15 months. I fully expected to wear the tire out and move back to an R Compound. I want to say around 15 track days, 5000 street miles, and a few AutoX's later... they still had around 60% tread left. The other thing of note about the Star Spec's is they seem to have more consistant/sustained grip than some of the other tires I've ran. For example, the Falken 615's tend to get greasy after a couple of sessions. The Star Specs grip at the start of the session and always held on consistantly through the duration of however long the session lasted. I've seen alot of Lemon's/ChumpCar's run these tires for the same reason. Once you are ready to make the jump to R Compounds, most people jump to a middle of the road r compound tire, like the Nitto NT01. These tend to be a little sticker when shaved new, but you give up over all life of the tire. I don't reccommend it. If you are competing, you generally aren't going to be competitive on this tire. The "top" tier for us grassroots guys are the Hoosier R6 and A6, Kumho V710, and the new Goodyear tire(not readily available). I'm very partial to Hoosier as they offer a great contingency for us. They also offer the fastest tire, period. Hard to argue with that. Depending on the car will determine how long each tire lasts. The Hoosier A6 is the fastest for the Road Course. They are a must have for Time Trials. I know plenty of people that have road raced on A6's for several years now as well. Some have had issues with heat management and making them last for the entire race. Most don't. Driver style has alot to do with that. Another great thing about the A6 is grip is there immediately. That produces alot of driver confidence at the start of a race knowing that the grip will be there to control the car. It'll take other tires a couple of laps to get up to temp. Kumho V710's are a really awesome tire as well. They last forever and are also a tire that is great for AutoX and the Track. Not quite as fast as an A6, but generally last longer. R6 is a little harder of a compound making it a little slower than the A6, but has a better heat range for longer events(obviously). Again, understand this is seveal months old. Just sharing some of my experience in this thread for future reference. __________________ Road Atlanta August 2011 NASA TT 1:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFY00PAK_Ps Traqmate's video of my car from the 2011 UTCC at VIR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zcn6...layer_embedded Video of Yellow LS1 FD at NASA TT at VIR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k0lJkcwrM

11-18-2011, 10:57 AM	#6
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 20	I had my RT615s get a little sloppy at Talladega (slow course) in my 86 N/A... I'm not sure if the 615Ks are an improvement, but if they're like the 615s, I'd probably not recommend them for a faster car/track. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

11-18-2011, 02:51 PM	#7
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR Posts: 473 Rep Power: 18	+1 for V710's. its amazing how long they last, considering their grip. I cant speak for track, but they will easily last 2x as long as a6's in autocross, without being too much slower. they still take wins at nationals, altho not many (their contingency sucks, so that doesnt help). others who have driven both say that the a6 actually falls off worse than the 710's in the tail end of their life as well. 710's are also much easier+cheaper to find used. just about no used a6 is worth buying. __________________

11-18-2011, 04:38 PM	#8
Kentetsu RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts: 530 Rep Power: 18	I've been running Hankook rubber for autocross (new this summer) and love them. I'm killing Miatas on the 255/13 Hoosiers easily. Everyone comes over to check out the tires I'm running, and I've had many people comment on how well they are wearing. They also seem to be performing as well on their 7th event as they did on their first, without any of the performance "fall-off" that the Hoosiers are known for. This is, of course, an autocross compound, but they also come in a track compound which is supposed to be just as good. They're also about 35% cheaper than A6s. So far they seem to be a damned good tire, even if they cost as much as the Hoosiers. . __________________ "Learn from the past, or it will become your future...." '85 GS 12a + LSD/Sterling carb/Respeed coilovers/Respeed front swaybar/Respeed adj. rear spring perches/Illuminas/Bilsteins on rear AutoX vids @ http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1

11-19-2011, 12:03 AM	#9
Brent Sua Sponte Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 839 Rep Power: 18	I assume you are talking about the C91's? I agree, another really good tire. C91 is the equivalent of the A6. C71 is the equivalent of the R6. Both good tires. C91 isn't quite as fast as the A6, but may last longer in the AutoX. One Caveat for the track stuff, I run A6's until the cord. We always make the joke that they are the fastest right before they cord. __________________ Road Atlanta August 2011 NASA TT 1:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFY00PAK_Ps Traqmate's video of my car from the 2011 UTCC at VIR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zcn6...layer_embedded Video of Yellow LS1 FD at NASA TT at VIR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k0lJkcwrM

01-28-2012, 04:52 PM	#10
wanksta The Newbie Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 13 Rep Power: 0	I agree with Brent on using the Star Specs until you have everything else sorted out (car and driver). We use the Star Spec on our Chump Car as its limited to 200+ tread rating. They outperform every other tire we've tried and last as good or better. Plus its the only ones we've used that still had the same grip after being heat cycled once. Amazingly, they tend to be fastest right before they are worn to the wear bars, which means a good value and lots of laps for your money.