who makes a good wideband?

[sen2two]

From what everyone is saying... It seems to be that the sensors are the problem, not the actual wideband hardware.

I have the Innovate LM-1, which I only have in the car when I tune it. I also only run pump gas in the car, and a bit of water/meth. Which gives cooler exhaust temps. So the sensor shouldnt really be a problem for me.

Does anyone have a problem with the actual Innovate set-up that dosnt involve the sensor?

Can you upgrade any one of the above listed "better" sensors to the Innovate set-up?

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by sen2two

From what everyone is saying... It seems to be that the sensors are the problem, not the actual wideband hardware.

I have the Innovate LM-1, which I only have in the car when I tune it. I also only run pump gas in the car, and a bit of water/meth. Which gives cooler exhaust temps. So the sensor shouldnt really be a problem for me.

Does anyone have a problem with the actual Innovate set-up that dosnt involve the sensor?

Can you upgrade any one of the above listed "better" sensors to the Innovate set-up?

Yes,

The innovate is a toy > like all the ones in that price bracket especial tech edge crap ! they are always OUT compared to professional meters *you should always expect +-0.2 AFR on average with these*.

I tested all of them not on lab gases out of a bottle but on a real car on common feed to new sensors and the cheaper units always especially at rich mixtures were quite random.

I used to bestow the virtues of Innovate stuff wrote hundreds of posts on them and was the sole Australian dealer, but given what I know now there is no way in hell I would recommend one or their technology which is on sold to people like Helltech. NOR would I ever recommend the techedge rubbish that is made in a house in Canberra/Australia by a failed Electronics guru who is regarded by his peers as a "joke" probably why his meters deliver the same results as their owner.

The moral of AFR Instruments is you get an instrument for instruments money, for Toy money you get a Toy.

Save your pennies and buy a proper meter, this is one of the most critical things you will ever measure on a car period, why trust your reading to toys made in someone house or made with flawed technology when for a little more cash you can use the same Gear HKS technology use or what many Automotive OEM companies use to make real performance cars

The NEKO AF-700 is a great unit, look it up on www.rhdjapan.com I am the person who made them stock it its the #1 unit in use in Japan by all top end tuners and development companies, for the cost and what you get its cheap in my books.

[djmtsu]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

The NEKO AF-700 is a great unit, look it up on www.rhdjapan.com I am the person who made them stock it its the #1 unit in use in Japan by all top end tuners and development companies, for the cost and what you get its cheap in my books.

Lol. You are wayyyy toooo hardcore.

I know I cannot justify a $1400 AF meter for a $400 car.

Looks nice though.

[j9fd3s]

Originally Posted by sen2two

Does anyone have a problem with the actual Innovate set-up that dosnt involve the sensor?

Can you upgrade any one of the above listed "better" sensors to the Innovate set-up?

yes. mine likes to pop one of the capacitors on the board, they actually melt.

AFIK you have to use the bosch sensor (which is a slow POS, designed to go ON a slow POS), the calibrations are different.

IMO its kind of ok, cause i was totally falling into the "the wideband must read a certain number!" trap, instead of looking for how well the engine runs, or power....

for example i put the WB on the PP just to make sure it wasn't too lean, WB said mid 11's, which is much richer than the 13.2 everyone throws out, but the engine LOVED IT. plugs didn't look dark either...

oh and it does help that a weber IDA is fuel only, and its only got about a 5x5 map, with fixed rpm points and it just interpolates between cells