Plain Jane OEM nothing to see here rebuild

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Excellent point on the hose issue...I never even considered that.

About the filter, I didn't have my oil temp gauge wired up at the time I first started the engine up. My concern was how much hotter and how quickly it got hot compared to the rest of the engine and coolant. What I guess was going on was that there was probably air being pushed through with the oil on initial start up.

Compared to coolant, I've noticed my oil temps rise faster on a cold start. This is normal. The stock oil cooler has a thermovalve in it that allows oil to bypass the cooler when it's below a certain temperature. Also your oil filter has a pretty thin metal case, so the heat from the hot oil flowing thru it will readily transfer to your hand.

[RETed]

With the emissions hoses, you gotta be careful...
Anything that has oil (vapor) or gasoline vapor will make short order of regular "vacuum hose" and / or silicone vacuum hose.
In a pinch, I recommend using "carburetor fuel hose," which is cheap and easy to get from any car parts store.
At least the carb fuel hose is rated to handle petroluem liquids and vapors.
Almost any vacuum hose 6mm or 1/4" I.D. under the hood is going to have either oil "crankcase" vapors or gasoline vapors from the gas tank.

I concur that it's normal for the oil filter to get that hot.
For most humans, when temp start to edge over 100F, you tend to pull your hand away.
Pain threshold is around 120F - 130F?
I think 2nd degree burns start about that temps too.
Normal oil temps are 190F - 200F, so this is easily over the burn / pain threshold.
Coolant temps will beat oil temps to the thermostat setting, but the oil temps will tend to equalize faster throughout the engine due to 1) having a smaller heat exchanger - i.e. oil cooler, and 2) oil paths are concentrated around the hottest parts of the engine.
Once oil temps are at it's normal operating temperatures, it takes a long time for that temp to come down, especially versus coolant temps.

As for the MBC and boost sensor related issues...
I got a quick&dirty test for you, but with the engine being hurt, we might wait till after the rebuild?
You can isolate if it's a boost related issue by disconnecting the electrical connector from the boost sensor.
Try to minimize running the engine into heavy boost at any one single time, but running in and out of boost just across the "0" threshold should be safe.
If the hiccup goes away, it's a boost or boost sensor related issue.
If the hiccup is still there, look else where...


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Yeah, you two are both probably right abou the filter getting hot as quickly as it did. And being my first rebuild I'm looking for things and not knowing everything to look for...so I'm creating more questions that I need to.

I believe the car is parked where it will remain until rebuild is done. I'm probably done testing things after today. I'm getting a little crunched for time and like Ted mentioned, testing on a sick engine isn't really helping to narrow down any problems outside of the coolant seal problem. I did a compression test on the cold engine just looking for and hoping to get all even bumps. Which I did get!! Perfect world I would have warmed the engine up but that did not happen and I was really just easing my paranoia that my problems could also be related to a bad apex, corner or side seal.

Cold Numbers
Front 95-100ish
Rear 110-120ish all around

[JustJeff]

Well I believe while prepping the engine for removal I found the cause of my boost problems.


It was very small when I started removing things, In the process of pulling the TMIC and getting the pic I made the tear much much worse. The $4 plumbing coupler served me well, but I suppose I should get the proper part.

I haven't decided whether to pull the tranny with the engine or just the engine. Pulling the engine only will make removal much easier as I will not have to drain the transmission, lower the exhaust, remove heat shielding to get to transmission mount and convertible transmission brace. Come to think of it, I won't have to take the clutch hose off either.

Ted something I forgot to mention in our PM. On the initial rebuild I had replaced the clutch with an ACT street clutch. Replaced the throwout and pilot bearings at that time.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Well I believe while prepping the engine for removal I found the cause of my boost problems.

It was very small when I started removing things, In the process of pulling the TMIC and getting the pic I made the tear much much worse. The $4 plumbing coupler served me well, but I suppose I should get the proper part. .

That will do it... For replacement silicone couplers & related parts, you might want to give these guys a try:

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/

Prices are very reasonable for silicone parts, and the parts I tried seem to be holding up rather well after a year of use on my daily driver. Haven't used any of their parts on the FC yet, but I purchased a couple of straight coupler pieces from them for my Protege5. The stock rubber/plastic intake pipe on that car has a bad habit of cracking over time, so rather than paying Mazda the crazy cost of another stock part, I fabbed up a replacement pipe with these couplers and some AL pipe.

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I haven't decided whether to pull the tranny with the engine or just the engine. Pulling the engine only will make removal much easier as I will not have to drain the transmission, lower the exhaust, remove heat shielding to get to transmission mount and convertible transmission brace. Come to think of it, I won't have to take the clutch hose off either.

My $0.02 is on pulling just the engine. If you're pulling the tranny out with it, you'll also need a bit more clear workspace in front of where the car sits to manuever the hoist & engine/tranny unit out of the car without hitting anything along the way.

[JustJeff]

Thanks for the heads up on silicone parts source. I did pull just the engine, and yes it was so much easier than pulling the tranny with the engine. Prepping for removal aside, it took maybe 15 min to pull the engine, swing the engine hoist around and drop the engine into the back of my van. Going to rebuild the engine in a warmer location than where the car is stored.

This might be mundane but the bolt from tranny to engine. The one behind the starter came out with oil on it. There wasn't a trail of oil leading down to the bolt (like from the oil filter area), and no oil around the head of the bolt. But I pulled the bolt out and it had a nice coating of oil on it.


There she is, in all her glory...

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

This might be mundane but the bolt from tranny to engine. The one behind the starter came out with oil on it. There wasn't a trail of oil leading down to the bolt (like from the oil filter area), and no oil around the head of the bolt. But I pulled the bolt out and it had a nice coating of oil on it.

I swear it looks like oil dripped down from the oil filter / base?

Any leaks on the oil pan itself?
It could be an oil leak could've seeped upwards?


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

I swear it looks like oil dripped down from the oil filter / base?

Any leaks on the oil pan itself?
It could be an oil leak could've seeped upwards?


-Ted

Yes and yes, I'm using an oil pedestal sandwich for my temp and pressure senders. I did initially have problems with the sandwich leaking, which I had addressed. I also had a leak at the oil level sensor on the oil pan. I wasn't sure if the sensor that came on my JDM engine was working or not so I swapped to a known working one. I did not think to replace the oring and had a consistent but small leak from there.

I didn't not see any oil had run down the bellhousing of the transmission, but I think I know where this is leading. Oil from the pedestal leak worked its way between the rear iron and transmission?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I didn't not see any oil had run down the bellhousing of the transmission, but I think I know where this is leading. Oil from the pedestal leak worked its way between the rear iron and transmission?

Yes, it's possible.
I've seen oil leaking from the oil cooler fittings at the oil cooler somehow whip back and end up coating the bottom of the trans!
You gotta remember that air flows from the front, up and over and under the engine...





Just a quick note on this pic...
Red circle shows an exhaust gas leak.
It should have a similar mark on the turbo exhaust manifold.
Gasket looks okay...
Was the turbo exhaust manifold not bolted down tight enough?
Crack?


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

It should have a similar mark on the turbo exhaust manifold.
Gasket looks okay...
Was the turbo exhaust manifold not bolted down tight enough?
Crack?


-Ted

We saw the same thing in that pic. Sometimes I post things to confirm what I'm already thinking, but also others can learn if they run into similar situations. A lot of times car forums have people posting the really cool and extreme stuff they are doing, but don't post mundane things. The mundane things I think help people such as myself, who don't have large real life network to bounce ideas/experiences off of.

That being said, Yes, IIRC I did have problems getting the front of the exhaust manifold bolted down. On the first rebuild, after the engine had been installed I then made the untimely decision to put new exhaust gaskets on. I do remember having trouble getting the front manifold nuts tightened down correctly. But also as this pic shows, I do have cracks in the manifold. They were there when the initial rebuild happened last year, I was hoping they were not long enough to cause a leak.


I have a spare S5 turbo manifold in storage, I'll get that either later tonight or tomorrow morning. I remember that the manifold wasn't in perfect shape, but that's as much as I remember.

What I don't know is what to expect from symptoms of an exhaust leak at that location. Louder exhaust, but what else?

I have heard of people welding and repairing cracks, but I've also heard that often times that the welded repair then becomes a problem down the road. It sounds like repairing those cracks are more a temporary fix than an long term solution. But the reason I'm bringing up temporary fixes is that this summer I will be taking welding classes. It is possible that this summer I will meet someone through the instructor of the class who could weld a new manifold for me. If I could learn to do the work myself that would be better, but might be a little ambitious of an expectation from an entry level welding class.

[JustJeff]

How much should this soot bother me coming off the front exhaust port? I inspected the exhaust manifold and didn't see any cracks in that location.


Here is the port with a lil bit of soot matching the soot one the opposite facing of the gasket.

[vrracing]

I've found Verocious Motorsports to be great for silicone and all the other fab stuff. Their prices are usually really good and they ship really fast too.

I bought a bunch of stuff from them and have always been pleased so maybe you'll find them useful too.

Bummer about the manifold.

[JustJeff]

Thanks for the heads up vrracing. I'll check them out.

As for the exhaust manifolds
I pulled my spare one from storage and it's no better and has cracks in just about the exact same location. I stopped in the trusted machine shop I've been using to ask about repairing the manifold. He's prognosis was not good for either manifold. It would cost me around $100 to attempt to repair one of them. His concern is that once they start heating up the manifold the cracks will extend and become unrepairable.

I haven't made much progress in getting the engine torn down. I've got a what I think is a bad rotator cuff in my right arm. It's quite miserable in that simple range of movement trying to reach across my body, behind me, over my head, or reach out for something lights up my arm like crazy. Getting the flywheel off today was about all my arm could take.

[JustJeff]

Engine is torn down. What does a failed coolant seal physically look like? I didn't find any blown out coolant walls. I didn't find any seals broken in half, but I did find two inner coolant seals shreaded quite easily. But that seemed almost normal for the inner.


I have not started cleaning parts yet and snapped some pics of what I think are suspicious looking coolant seals still in the grooves.


This spot was splitting at the seam, but also at the bottom of the pic.


Something bad did happen while transporting the engine after the flywheel and front bolt had been broken free. Engine came free of it's restraints and rolled in the back of the van. I'll get some pics tomorrow of my front and rear iron for opinions.

[RETed]

Can you take a wide angle view of the entire surface of the irons?
Sometimes you can see a discoloration in the area of the coolant leak...


-Ted