280rwhp@9lbs of boost, stock turbo,stock ecu

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Raksj04

wow, i am just curious what rpm are you hitting 280?

I gave the dyno shop a call, peak hp was @7400 rpm and peak torque was at 5800 rpm's..

[RETed]

"Most people" would have a hard time getting the stock turbo to push anything past 240 - 250hp at the wheels, even on a DynoJet.
What we're dealing with here is a lot of hush-hush stuff that the OP isn't willing to give all the nitty gritty details to at this point in time.
Even I have my doubts on how a "stock turbo" + "stock ECU" is going to push an honest 280 at the wheels myself...
I was going to leave this alone and hopefully some useful hints might get posted, but it's starting to go in the wrong direction.

We don't know what kind of fuel this set-up is using, but it might be some "exotic" race fuel...
We don't know what kind of ignition timing this set-up is using, although advancing the ignition timing doesn't usually gain that much power, but I have a feeling we're not dealing with stock ignition timing settings.
We're not talking about some ultra high RPM range (over 9,000+ RPM's), so that's not it.
DynoJet #'s can be fudged to read high; so far the reputation of the dyno owner hasn't been questioned yet (but I'm sure it will be now) - the pic does show the run being "UNCORRECTED".
There's not talk about some kind of supplemental injection; the only thing mentioned is a larger fuel pump + larger secondaries.
(Hell, 50-shot nitrous anyone?)
I don't there was mention of the stock top-mount intercooler or if there was a front-mount intercooler installed?
An FMIC would explain a 10 - 20hp gain over the stock top-mount intercooler set-up.
How about custom A2W intercooler? Ice?
CO2 / LN2 / N2O sprayer on the intercooler core?
We don't know the boost graph over the entire run.
Unless the system was running a closed-loop (electronic) boost controller, stock turbos tend to run higher peak boost right before peak torque and then taper of toward redline - so is the "9psi" the max it managed to hit, or was it closer to redline?
We don't know ambients - temperature or humidity.
Dry day with close to freezing temps will increase power (over a humid and hot day).
The OP also hinted about vehicle weight - we don't know the weight of the vehicle + driver.
Most "full interior" FC's are going to weigh around 3,000 lbs.
It's possible to get the FC down to 2,800 lbs. with driver or even down to 2,600 lbs. pretty easily.
What about what kind of rear tires?
Slicks would definitely aid traction.
Drag radials? Maybe.
Street tires? Possibly.
Too much variables...

In my experience, the stock turbo is only good for 240 - 250hp at the wheels.
An FMIC might give you another 10hp on top of that.
Someone on here claims they hit 270.
We do know the inducer and exducer measurements of the stock turbo.
When we average the #'s out, it slots in around a big T3 and under a small T04.
The "280" @ "9psi" is more what a T04B "V-trim" would do, and that's way up the chart.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/TURBO/tmodels.html

The pics of the clutch shows it was clearly destroyed and / or abused.
For a "3-puck" clutch disc to look like that, I want to know what it went through to end up like that.
Unless it was some inferior quality product (high doubtful), it would take a lot more than 300 lb-ft of torque to kill it unless it was abused (highly doubtful too).
I also question why even bother post a time slip from a run that you knew the clutch was slipping?
Maybe we just don't have the cajones like you do, but once I feel the clutch slipping, I call it a night and pack it up; the time slips get all throw in the trash.
I know you have a ton of drag racing experience, but I wonder why cause all this hubbub with a slipping clutch?


-Ted

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by RETed

"Most people" would have a hard time getting the stock turbo to push anything past 240 - 250hp at the wheels, even on a DynoJet.
What we're dealing with here is a lot of hush-hush stuff that the OP isn't willing to give all the nitty gritty details to at this point in time.
Even I have my doubts on how a "stock turbo" + "stock ECU" is going to push an honest 280 at the wheels myself...
I was going to leave this alone and hopefully some useful hints might get posted, but it's starting to go in the wrong direction.

We don't know what kind of fuel this set-up is using, but it might be some "exotic" race fuel...
We don't know what kind of ignition timing this set-up is using, although advancing the ignition timing doesn't usually gain that much power, but I have a feeling we're not dealing with stock ignition timing settings.
We're not talking about some ultra high RPM range (over 9,000+ RPM's), so that's not it.
DynoJet #'s can be fudged to read high; so far the reputation of the dyno owner hasn't been questioned yet (but I'm sure it will be now) - the pic does show the run being "UNCORRECTED".
There's not talk about some kind of supplemental injection; the only thing mentioned is a larger fuel pump + larger secondaries.
(Hell, 50-shot nitrous anyone?)
I don't there was mention of the stock top-mount intercooler or if there was a front-mount intercooler installed?
An FMIC would explain a 10 - 20hp gain over the stock top-mount intercooler set-up.
How about custom A2W intercooler? Ice?
CO2 / LN2 / N2O sprayer on the intercooler core?
We don't know the boost graph over the entire run.
Unless the system was running a closed-loop (electronic) boost controller, stock turbos tend to run higher peak boost right before peak torque and then taper of toward redline - so is the "9psi" the max it managed to hit, or was it closer to redline?
We don't know ambients - temperature or humidity.
Dry day with close to freezing temps will increase power (over a humid and hot day).
The OP also hinted about vehicle weight - we don't know the weight of the vehicle + driver.
Most "full interior" FC's are going to weigh around 3,000 lbs.
It's possible to get the FC down to 2,800 lbs. with driver or even down to 2,600 lbs. pretty easily.
What about what kind of rear tires?
Slicks would definitely aid traction.
Drag radials? Maybe.
Street tires? Possibly.
Too much variables...

In my experience, the stock turbo is only good for 240 - 250hp at the wheels.
An FMIC might give you another 10hp on top of that.
Someone on here claims they hit 270.
We do know the inducer and exducer measurements of the stock turbo.
When we average the #'s out, it slots in around a big T3 and under a small T04.
The "280" @ "9psi" is more what a T04B "V-trim" would do, and that's way up the chart.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/TURBO/tmodels.html

The pics of the clutch shows it was clearly destroyed and / or abused.
For a "3-puck" clutch disc to look like that, I want to know what it went through to end up like that.
Unless it was some inferior quality product (high doubtful), it would take a lot more than 300 lb-ft of torque to kill it unless it was abused (highly doubtful too).
I also question why even bother post a time slip from a run that you knew the clutch was slipping?
Maybe we just don't have the cajones like you do, but once I feel the clutch slipping, I call it a night and pack it up; the time slips get all throw in the trash.
I know you have a ton of drag racing experience, but I wonder why cause all this hubbub with a slipping clutch?


-Ted

TOP MOUNT original intercooler. I posted a dyno video of the pull. stock ignition componets.. STOCK MEANS STOCK. no exoctic fuel, average local gas station 93 octane. no CO2 / LN2 / N2O or anything else for that matter. reason I Posted some information on this car is simple, to show the potential with a very simple set up. this is NOT my car, this is my 18 year old kid's rx7 and she is the one currently driving the car with very little track time(she did not understand the clutch was screaming and did not lift). and so far she is on a good roll. also reason the clutch pics were shown is to keep informing that the 13.0 run was with clutch slippage and better times are to come..

the car held 9lbs of boost from 5500rmps up to the factory rev limiter. rear tires were mickey thompson DOT drag radials. ignition timing was factory -5 and -20 @ the 750 rpm idle. to be continue.

forgot to ADD stock series 5 ecu.. stock means STOCK. no rtek, apex afc, NADA MEANS NADA. i will add with the 850cc secondaries the car would lean out past 9psi. later on as we go, ill find a way to add more fuel past 9psi with some additional injection.

[Mazdabater]

Is this the same car you put in the other thread that ran the 13.0 at 104mph?

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Mazdabater

Is this the same car you put in the other thread that ran the 13.0 at 104mph?

yes, this is my kid's rx7. you could follow her build and progress on my shops facebook. search for Arp shop in fb

[Mazdabater]

Odd. My FC when it was a very similar setup stock turbo, stock fuel pump/injectors with an extend port made 220hp but did 13.5 @ 104mph down the 1/4. I thought the mph would be higher for 280hp.

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by Mazdabater

Odd. My FC when it was a very similar setup stock turbo, stock fuel pump/injectors with an extend port made 220hp but did 13.5 @ 104mph down the 1/4. I thought the mph would be higher for 280hp.

Based on HP alone, I did too, but 1/4 mile times and trap speeds also depend greatly on the driver's response time off the line and how well the tires hook up and get the car moving. You can have 1000 HP, but if you sit there spinning your wheels off the line it's going to sap your trap speed & 1/4 time.

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

Based on HP alone, I did too, but 1/4 mile times and trap speeds also depend greatly on the driver's response time off the line and how well the tires hook up and get the car moving. You can have 1000 HP, but if you sit there spinning your wheels off the line it's going to sap your trap speed & 1/4 time.

don't forget the weight of the vehicle vs hp also determines E.T./mph

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Mazdabater

Odd. My FC when it was a very similar setup stock turbo, stock fuel pump/injectors with an extend port made 220hp but did 13.5 @ 104mph down the 1/4. I thought the mph would be higher for 280hp.

what so odd? on a previous run she did 105.66mph and also had clutch issues,(slipping from second gear on) the clutch slippage will cause a low mph. and your missing the most important factor. this is a rookie driver. this is my kid's 3rd time at the track, and she barely knows how to get the gears in. in-experience plays a huge role in drag racing. so i'll keep updating her progress..

[diabolical1]

Ito, honestly, i hear you on that point you made about this being enough for the street. as you've shown, it can be done with mostly stock equipment. as usual, great work!

does she have a sense of what's next or are you the driving mind behind the car's development?

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by diabolical1

Ito, honestly, i hear you on that point you made about this being enough for the street. as you've shown, it can be done with mostly stock equipment. as usual, great work!

does she have a sense of what's next or are you the driving mind behind the car's development?

Jason, she needs tons of practice with the current set-up.. considering im dealing with a green drag racer i would say she has potential..

[diabolical1]

^if i recall, she was having issues with the clutch. that sounds like more than enough to cause any performance discrepancies you find in the time and trap speed.

[Mazdabater]

Her 60ft time is excellent. So therefore what I'm getting at is the mph isn't there for 280hp. Obviously there is no traction issues. As for weight and hp I'm comparing 2 very similar setup cars.

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Mazdabater

Her 60ft time is excellent. So therefore what I'm getting at is the mph isn't there for 280hp. Obviously there is no traction issues. As for weight and hp I'm comparing 2 very similar setup cars.

seems like you dont have much drag racing experience, when a car is SLIPPING A CLUTCH, the car is basically running still. forward momentum is sacrified and E.T./MPH is effected. it's that simple. this 13.0 run was a no where near perfect run. I addressed that a few times and you still don't get it. According to her 60ft mark she should've ran 12.88 but she didnt, showing some issues with in the run. and as far as weight, i'll get some numbers soon. car should run some where between 12.5 -12.6 i'll keep updating her progress

[Judge Ito]

Originally Posted by Mazdabater

Her 60ft time is excellent. So therefore what I'm getting at is the mph isn't there for 280hp. Obviously there is no traction issues. As for weight and hp I'm comparing 2 very similar setup cars.

you want to compare 2 similar cars? she went half a second faster then you while the clutch slipped most of the quarter mile. takes alot more then 220rwhp to do that. a comparison cannot be done until the car has a clean run with no clutch issues. hope this helps..