Diary of a Madman; TitaniumTT's see you @ DGRRXI RE-REbuild

[TitaniumTT]

Not really all that complicated really, and not the most accurate but at least now I definately know what the fuck is going on with the ole' FC. Here's what I did yesterday

I started off by permanently mounting all the relays in the trunk and building a brace that fills the void behind the drivers side wheel where the harness travels. In here I installed two SPDT switches underneath some safety covers. The idea being that the common terminal runs to terminal 86 on the fuel pump relays. The top terminal (which is contacted when the covers are closed) is connected to the turn-on from the MoTeC and the bottom terminal is connected to an ign hot source. The thought being that the pumps can be completely manipulated with the engine off and the engine not running. Or the engine running to de-pressurize the lines, drain the surge tank etc etc etc...... So after that was done and all tidy I moved on to actually testing the pumps.

While I admit this isn't the most effective way to do this, it did give some pretty valuable insight as to what was actually going on. When I wired up the fuel pumps I added an extra hot/grnd that ran outside the cell so that I can see exactely what voltage the pumps where seeing when running. Pretty trick I thought. So I went to RS and bought a second set of test leads that I added some metri-pack connectors to so everything plugged in and I didn't have to tape shit together or hold test leads. So with that in place I moved onto th reconfiging the fuel cell.

The first thought that Dave had outside bad voltage was that the surge tank wasn't getting enough fuel into the surge tank. I was pretty convinced when the thing lean surged on me and pressure went to almost nothing on the drive home. On the return from the surge tank to the main cell I put in a length of clear hose so I could visually see the fuel moving around. It took a while as I'm pretty sure the surge tank was dry but within a few seconds the clear line purged a few bubbles and then was solid fuel with the engine running. Cool, so the surge tank is getting filled, cross that off.



Next I disconnected the feed into the surge tank off the Denso and ran it to an external reg set for ~43psi and dumping right into my 5 gal Jerry can.



I turned on the denso pump and timed how long it took to fill the 5 gallon jerry. ou can see in one of the pics the amount of V it's getting and the voltage drop. About 12.5 on the dash (VERY close to what the battery sees) and 12.34 on the multimeter. Bryan from BNR confirmed my numbers @ 292lph.... fucking sweet! Ok, so lets cross that off becuase that pump will never really see any pressure so the flow will be more than enough. Alright, now lets test the bosch pump.

I reconnected the feed from the Denso to the surge tank, but left the clear hose installed. I did this becuase there is only 5 qt's in the surge tank, and I'm looking to fill 5 gallons, so the Denso needs to be running as well. The fuel from the regulator on the back of the engine will be dumped into the 5 gallon jerry just so this is basically 100% flow out of the surge tank, with no return, so I wanted to make sure that the Denso would definately keep up.




I disconnected the return from the regulator and hooked that line up to the dump into the 5 gal jerry and capped the return line on the firewall. The reason for capping it was becuase the Denso would fill the surge tank, and then I'm sure there will be a little pressure and that will push up the return line and spew all over the bay, so that fucker got capped. I fired up both pumps and started the clock.. Voltage at the Bosch pump was less, around 11.7 and the dash saw 12.2 12.3V Sadly the mighty 044 put out a lathargic 165 lph at 59psi rail pressure..... FAIL. A far cry from the 300lph it claims and 200 lph @ 70 psi and 12V.



Just to satisfy everything that needed to be satisfied I stuffed a mechanical gauge in before the filter and turned the pumps back on. I saw over 70psi before the filter and some pretty nasty fluctuations, as in betweel 60 and 80 psi. The gauge was boucing all over the place. I swapped the filter for a BRAND new one adn repeated the test. The time dropped by a whopping 3 seconds and the psi dropped a few psi as well Average seemed to be about high 60's now maybe around 70. So the filter isn't really to blame for all of this... I think the pump really is shit. It's probably just this pump though, not all Boschs.

So, thoughts opinions on what the next step is? I'm not convinced that the Bosch pump is going to be the best for me. I'm really leaning towards a second Denso pump in the surge tank. 292lph is defintately going to be enough especially if I drop the base pressure.

If it's still not enough I could bump the voltage. Something that I'm not opposed to doing via a Kenne Bell BAP but without the boost sensor. I would rather the voltage be constant and not varying all over the place becuase there will be a time delay, or so I'm convinced of. I'd rather set it to 14V and just leave it there at all times.

So, what is hands down the best intank QUIET fuel pump out there. People sweat by the A'pexi BNR32 but that sells for about $400, I could buy the BAP and a Denso pump for that price.

[MaczPayne]

I replied to my thread on the denso pump, but I'll put it here as well

I got mine brand new for $190 shipped from www.TitanMotorsports.com


Everyone else was backordered, the folks there had it shipped to my door in about 5 business days (It'll be quicker to you since they're in Florida)

I initially purchased it for 149.99 shipped from http://densofuelpump.com/index.html , but got a refund when I found out it was backordered. If you can wait, these guys are cheaper.

[TitaniumTT]

Thanks Johnson, but when I checked Titan, they had it for $235?

And that Denso Fuel Pump.com place that you're referring to has a neat little disclaimer underneath it... did you see that? These guys right?

http://densofuelpump.com/index.html

Please note that these fuel pumps do not come in Denso boxes. They are Denso fuel pumps modified by Kyosan in Japan. 100% authentic guaranteed.You can read a review of them here

These guys are the ones I bought it from previously - http://www.rallysportdirect.com/shop/shopping_cart.php

One Time fit kit has the pump, lines, and filter.... I might just end up going that route again.

[MaczPayne]

I bought it from their ebay store, actually. They had it for $190 shipped, comes in an authentic Denso Box with all the fittings, adaptors, and new fuel filter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Denso...#ht_3324wt_954

[WE3RX7]

Damn B.... Why not just build your own pump though

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by MaczPayne

I bought it from their ebay store, actually. They had it for $190 shipped, comes in an authentic Denso Box with all the fittings, adaptors, and new fuel filter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Denso...#ht_3324wt_954

NICE... thanks much man. I actually called Rallysport today to order one but then they quoted me $50+ for overnight shipping which I was not pleased at especially when thier website says $30. I cancelled the whole thing and decided that I'm going to drop the cell tonight and pull both pumps. Tomorrow when my sealing washers are in from McMaster i'm going to rebuild the Surge tank mount for the Denso 1020 that I have and drop that in and put the cell back in place. In the lift pumps place will be the old Cosmo pump that I bought @ last years DGRR that I THOUGHT was bad.... I'm not convinced anymore. I'm going to flow test that one and if it flows >280+ lph @ 10psi, it will stay in place. If not, I'll order a new pump and drop it in. The cell doesn't have to drop to get to the lift pump, only the pressure pump...... and of course that's the one that's bad

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Damn B.... Why not just build your own pump though

I thought about it, there's no pump out there that flows better than 300lph that's quite............. MAYBE.... I have a plan. @ 70 psi the Denso is right on the cusp of being overdrawn by the injectors. If this is the case, it's time for a Kenne Bell BAP to get it up and over the hump.

It's really got me thinking about WTF I'm going to do about the FD though. That's going to need more fuel than the Denso can put out. That'll be an interesting project.... twin in surge tank Denso's

Ya know, when you think you've done everything, and over done it right....... this shit happens..... Oh well. I'm heading out to Dave's on Thrusday and kinda want to have this little issue sorted out so next wed (next day off) I can pull the engine make a few changes, bolt on the 6-spd, swap the 4.3 in and then maybe finally get over the dyno hump. When are you looking to head out Bill?

[vex]

Damn you and your projects that get completed in timely manners!

[TitaniumTT]

Yup

So I "tested" the Supra TT pump... unrestricted it will fill that 5 gal in about 3:05. It flows 97 gph or 367 lph

[helghast7]

hell yea dude, why do you think all the FD guys use them?

as the saying goes, that ive heard at least,....its the only the toyota built right

[TitaniumTT]

Wow, over a week since an update... ok, so here it goes in a quickie

Got the fuel cell working tip top. The old cosmo pump that I had actually turned out to be good. Tested right where it should've, 252lph @ 43.5 psi. Cool, so that's in the lift pump position, and the supra is in the surge tank position. So far everything seems to be awesome. I built a bunch of harness adapters and clear tubing to monitor V, A, and flow and it seems to be working as it should. The last little piece that I need to build is an overflow/recirc tank if you will that I plan to mount high where the spare tire once lived. I didn't really take into account thermal expansion when I designed the damn thing. The fuel is coming back hot, expanding in the tank, and puking out the vent. Bad.

The solution is about a gallon tank mounted above the cell itself. In theory the fuel can expand into that before it heads out of the vent. When the level in the tank falls, the fuel will siphon itself back into the cell. Hopefully that will cure the last of the woes with this little project.

Got the 4.3 Torsen swapped in yesterday as well as hauled the engine, cracked the pan off to remove the shims in the bypass valve. Pressure was WAY too high. FD reg + shimmed bypass + ported galleys, + o-ring sealed pump + cold 10w30 = 150psi cold!!! So the shims came out and everything is being buttoned back up. Also pulled the engine to FINALLY install the 6-spd. It'll be alot easier to mount the slave cylinder (that will be a modded S4 TII unit) with the engine/trans out of the car. Then stab it back in and build a mount.

I made a simple jig that fit's between the u-joints and the trans tunnel and the u-joints and the floor to position the trans/engine exactely where it was with the S5TII shit box trans. This way I should be able to get everything exactely where it wants to be.

I should have everything up and running in a few days. I was hoping to get a few hours in on the girl tonight, but the 13.5 hr work day had different plans. Tomorrow is out as well as it will be a 15+hr day.... ugh. maybe Sunday... I'm only expecting about 10 Oh well, what can ya do except continue to bust ass.

If all goes well, Dyno on 8/7 and auto-x on 8/8..... fingers crossed ladies

[WE3RX7]

You better be there 8/7, lol.... none of this calling me the night before telling me you're not sure if the 'ol girl will get done in time

I'll check with MC to see if he is good for that day too, I mentioned it to him but we hadn't firmed it up yet so I'll get back to him and see (if of course, he's not reading this thread)..

Oh, and thanks for all the annoying/dreadful research and work into fuel systems, I think you saved me several hours in my project when I go to do it... I'll start with a supra pump

[vex]

GL fellas I'll be getting laid that night (anniversary and all).

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

You better be there 8/7, lol.... none of this calling me the night before telling me you're not sure if the 'ol girl will get done in time

Yeah, and she did get done in time didn't she..... alnighter and I got lost on a backroad set that I took a thousand times, but I still made it didn't I? It was the sticky corner seal that kept us from having fun. I've got all day Thursday set aside to do 3 hours of work plus build a tranny mount.

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

I'll check with MC to see if he is good for that day too, I mentioned it to him but we hadn't firmed it up yet so I'll get back to him and see (if of course, he's not reading this thread)..

That would be awesome, would be even better if you two made it to CT for an auto-x but I understand, the drive back and all.

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Oh, and thanks for all the annoying/dreadful research and work into fuel systems, I think you saved me several hours in my project when I go to do it... I'll start with a supra pump

Supra pump is awesome. I'll never stray from Denso again... EVER.

Originally Posted by vex

GL fellas I'll be getting laid that night (anniversary and all).

Boost get's you laid, 400+ rwhp makes panties wet. This is fact

Congrats man.

[EJayCe996]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Boost get's you laid, 400+ rwhp makes panties wet. This is fact

Sorry about that... I didn't mean to piss myself

[Duffman692002]

Wait, you have an FD now? I gotsta go back and find where I left off on this baby.