Plain Jane OEM nothing to see here rebuild

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

Can someone explain the PRC (Pressure Regulator Control)? I've seen some emissions removal that use it and some that do not use it. I have been trying to keep it.

I understand that it sits inline between the LIM and the dampener on the secondary rail. But what exactly does it do? I've seen in the FSM "shuts vacuum between dynamic chamber and pressure regulator"

Orange one?
I have a brief description here:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/PROBLEMS/EM/solenoids.htm

It's basically for emissions and starting, although IMO it contributes more toward a flooding headache upon hot-start cranking.
Basically what it does is vent the FPR to atmosphere on cranking (hot only?).
This causes the FPR / fuel rails to run at a slightly elevated pressure ~40psi.
(Otherwise, cold-start cranking pressure is around 36 - 38psi.)
Mazda claims this is to combat vapor lock on hot-start.
It causes more fuel to be injected into the engine upon cranking on hot-start.

I will tend to pull all of that emissions crap on most of my customer's cars.
I've personally done it to my FC, and I've never had a problem cranking - hot or cold - as long as the engine has good compression.


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

Orange one?
I have a brief description here:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/PROBLEMS/EM/solenoids.htm

It's basically for emissions and starting, although IMO it contributes more toward a flooding headache upon hot-start cranking.
Basically what it does is vent the FPR to atmosphere on cranking (hot only?).
This causes the FPR / fuel rails to run at a slightly elevated pressure ~40psi.
(Otherwise, cold-start cranking pressure is around 36 - 38psi.)
Mazda claims this is to combat vapor lock on hot-start.
It causes more fuel to be injected into the engine upon cranking on hot-start.

I will tend to pull all of that emissions crap on most of my customer's cars.
I've personally done it to my FC, and I've never had a problem cranking - hot or cold - as long as the engine has good compression.


-Ted

Thanks again Ted

I've got the UIM back on, but next time I take it off I'll look into removing. What I may do is remove the rats nest, but get some brake hose and bend it for the vacuum and fuel lines that I am using.

Overall I believe I have my vacuum issues worked out. One of the problems I found was that I couldn't find an accurate S5 TII diagram for removal of solenoids. I found plenty of S4 stuff and I even found one claiming to be S5 but it was using the S4 diagram. The most notable difference between the two is the nipple/port on the back of the UIM for the splitter to the OMP/MOP injectors. On S4 it's on the bottom, on S5 it's in the middle. IIRC the S4 also has 4 nipples on the back and the S5 has 3.

I made the mistake of thinking all the nipples on the intakes showed the same pressure/vacuum. This whole time I thought I had the wiring on my electronic boost gauge incorrect because it pegged to zero. It never moved at all. Well I do have my MBC set to go straight to the wastegate. Last night I put another splitter on the nipple under the BAC...WAAA LAAA mechanical boost gauge showed vacuum. Plugged in the electronic boost gauge..WAAA LAAA it's been wired correctly this whole time!!

Still need to work out the warning gauge for oil pressure, but I've got a good idea what I did wrong with that.

[JustJeff]

Today I'm swapping my Tokico Blues for a friends Tokico Illuminas. Both our sets are practically brand new so I'm swapping him and some cash to have adjustables. They will be paired up with some Tein springs. I'm not as happy as I expected with the Teins. I was driving on them for a month or two before I detonated my engine. The front tires rub on the lowest coil of the springs. Down the road I'll get some RB vert springs, but for now I'd be happy simply driving my car again.

After the springs are done I'm going to be doing the dreaded coolant seal tests. I've already drained the oil to check for coolant in my oil.

Also on the slate for today, testing TPS and CAS, making sure timing is correct, etc.

[JustJeff]

All I got done yesterday was swapping the Illuminas onto my Tein springs and getting them back on the car. Well that and getting a cold. By the time night time came I was feeling pretty miserable. On the plus side, at least I'm getting sick right now and not over Xmas and New Years Eve.

[JustJeff]

After a monster flu bug and Christmas craziness I've finally gotten back to work on my car.

Got the car back to where it was a long time ago. Car starts up fine, idles nice and even. BUT it still has an exhaust leak. Or what I assume is an exhaust leak because I can't find anything else. IT also has an annoying high pitch noise on the passenger side. I suspect it's the BAC valve. I'll put in some time testing the BAC...maybe even get a video of the sound to get some opinions.

I may take it to an exhaust shop and let them put it on lifts, give my exhaust a clean bill of health and while at it have them bend my hangers on my RB exhaust. I have the typical driver side uneven hang on my mufflers.

I've still got a couple little issues that may or may not be exhaust leak related. I get a nice loud backfire on deceleration. I did remove the dashpot and put it back on. So it may need adjusting. I've also got a dead spot on my TPS when testing resistance while going closed to WOT. I'm going by memory on the FSM Ohms for TPS. For narrow range I have a nice solid reading from .8 to about somewhere around 2.0-3.0 then it hits a dead spot and pics back up for 4.0-6.0 for WOT. Full range seems fine.

[JustJeff]

Got some video, is the ticking the BAC?

[JustJeff]

I'm proud to say that almost all the car's bugs have apparently been addressed!!??!!

I have apparently found my exhaust leak. The exhaust still sounds a little pooty, but I'm wanting to take it to a shop and have them hang the exhaust properly. I have the typical RB driver side tailpipe hanging lower than passenger side. While bending the hangers hopefully than can tighten things back up better than I could.

I have also apparently found why my engine was not idling properly. Part of it was the TPS needing adjusting. The other part was apparently a noob timing issue. I was not stabbing the CAS with the yellow(leading?) mark set on the front cover pin.

I do have some small issues to address still. Brakes are still squishy. I'm going to pull the master cylinder off my other vert tonight and tomorrow.

Also my speedometer cable pulled out from the instrument panel while I was connecting it to the transmission. What happened was the actual cable pulled out from within sleeve. I'm hoping I can simply pull the instrument cluster and simply reattach it. I had to swap mine years ago and remember it being a PITA to snake the thing up through dash.

Prosport oil pressure gauge still reads nothing. I've removed it and don't know what to do with it other than beat it with a hammer.

Hopefully I don't get any surprises tomorrow, but so far I couldn't be happier

[Gregory Casimir]

so how is the car so far dude?

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by Gregory Casimir

so how is the car so far dude?

Good timing, I was just getting ready to post some pics. The car has sat in a garage for many many months and I haven't had time to give the car the buff and wax it deserves. I did have time to take the car through a car wash over my lunch break.

Here is a pictorial. I've got Tein springs on it with Tokico Illuminas. I need to replace two of the tires. I'd love to put new rims on it, but I just can't part with the 12lb OEMs.

Top will need replaced, but that's low on my list right now.


Not a very good pic, but you get the idea


Havne't had the hangers bent yet.




140amp modified alternator I got off of eBay...nice find for $145 and a one year warranty. That allowed me to loose the FD alternator. I hated using that thing. It didn't fit under my TMIC. The padding under the TMIC is me trying to dampen rattling of the FD alt on the TMIC...just haven't removed it yet.


Turbo blanket fit on just fine. It did get beat up replacing exhaust gaskets...but it's an engine, it's to be expected.


Taurus e-fan. I've got the relay mounted under the radiator panel and am only using low speed on it. What I may do come summer time is wire my manual switch into high speed.

[JustJeff]

Mechanical updates:

I'm driving the car daily and it has just about 300 miles on it. It never misses when turning over, though it will stall some until it's warmed up. Hopefully that falls away during break in and warmer weather coming. My understanding is that stalling and flooding are normal during break in. I've got the MBC set to zero boost.

I can't figure out the pooty exhaust and it's really bothering me. I took it to the shop so they could put it on the lift and check for leaks and they found none. I also had them bleed the breaks, hoping they could get some air out that I wasn't able to. They gave it back to me with no charge and the owner called me a few days later to ask if the brakes were any better. He said they got some air out of the rear brakes but not a lot. They are still softer than they used to be. I drove my fathers n/a vert the other day as a comparison and his are noticeably stronger. I"m thinking maybe the brake booster?

The OEM volt meter has been showing overcharging by a little bit. The n/a engine was doing the same thing before the swap and I was hoping new drivetrain would fix the problem. It did not. I replaced the alternator with a modded 140amp S5 alternator. It's been on for about a week now. It helps greatly with the Taurus fan.

BUT I have a whole assortment of electrical problems:

1. OEM gauge is still showing some overcharging
2. lights are dimming and brightening with RPMs
3. My rear defroster is working sporadically. Most times the button indicator does not illuminate and it never comes on. BUT sometimes it will come on just fine.
4. Greddy boost gauge mysteriously stopped reading. It illuminates fine, but never reads anythign but zero. Just to be clear, it's not showing vacuum either...doesn't even go through opening ceremony. I checked the wiring. I tried ground directly to the battery and no change.
5. My Prosport pressure gauge has never worked and acts identically to how the Greddy is now. It will illuminate but never shows any reading other than zero. The Prosport will go through opening ceremony but stays pegged at zero afterwards.
6. Previous to the swap the dome light was most often not working... that is still the case.
7. One very strange thing happened. I plugged my phone car charger in..just the USB adapter with nothing plugged in. Engine wasn't running, I don't think the keys were even in the ignition. When I plug it in my car gave an electrical beep. I take it out and plug it back in and it beeps again. I'm watching the idiot cluster and my alarm indicator starts blinking and my OEM alarm goes off. I have a new CPU from Mazdatrix so I doubt it's that.

I haven't decided what to do about the electrical problems yet. I'm thinking I'm going to replace all the battery wiring with new. In my previous turbo swap I had a decent sized stereo and associated upgraded wiring that was run parallel to OEM wiring. In this case I'm very tempted to simply remove the battery ground through to the starter/engine and replace with great big ground. Also I'd like to replace the + battery to B terminal on the alternator and the + battery terminal to main fuse box in engine compartment. Essentially replace the OEM wiring with Big 3 upgraded wiring.

That won't solve most of the electrical problems I listed, but it's a starting point and something I'd like to do in prep for putting more stereo equipment. I assume the electrical problems is simply going to be checking grounds and looking for shorts....which I know NOTHING about.

Other than the electrical list and the pooty exhaust I have no complaints. My fears of coolant seal leak I think are simple paranoia. I'm not loosing any coolant...so far.

I'll post some about the body panels being painted a little later or tomorrow....gotta leave to meet the paint guy and get an estimate.

[JustJeff]

Updates

I FOUND MY IDLE/EXHAUST PROBLEM!!!! It was a combination of fouled plugs on the front rotor and my spark plug wire on the front leading plug was seemingly sitting prettly loose on the plug.

I was doing my 500 mile oil change tonight and figure I'd change the plugs too. I must have pulled the plug boot loose while running gauge, efan, and power cable for my stereo and alarm. It was on but not very well. The engine purred beautifully after changing the plugs.

I also believe I have worked out my efan problems. I've read that ATC fuses aren't the best and that fuse links are better because they aren't as susceptible to blowing during the initial current flow. My main fuse bank/distribution in the engine compartment has an open and unused spot. However the male spade on the bottom is much too wide for anything I could buy over the counter. I used my dremel to grind that spade down so it would fit an over the counter 10ga female spade. I had to cut that opening off of the harness because the spade would not insert into the harness. That work was done over the weekend and so far it's smooth sailing with the efan.

Still haven't done anything about paint. The next week is very busy between work and a family reunion. Hopefully next week I can schedule something with the paint guy. He said he'd need the parts for a week or so.

[JustJeff]

I'm having overheating issues with the engine. I'm using a Taurus efan and Starion thermoswitch in factory location on the back of the water pump housing. Starion switch IIRC is a 195 on and 185 off. I also have a manual on switch wired to cockpit of the car. Fan seems to be working perfectly. I have it wired directly into the main fuselink in the engine compartment on the low setting. I have it setup so that I can swap between to high setting by simply unplugging the low spade terminal and plugging in the high.

Here is what I've noticed so far with normal driving (not driving it hard as I'm still breaking in the engine). Temps will keeping rising and rising and when they start to pass 220 I'll pull the car over and either let it idle with the efan running and hood up or turn off the engine but let the efan run and every so often turn the engine on to cycle what is in the radiator back into the engine.

Here are the contributing factors I've tried to narrow down so far:

1. Put in a new thermostat and while doing that changed to a different used, but working water pump. (It was working fine last time I used it, can mechanical pumps fail?)
2. N/A hood was being used. While I've been driving to avoid boost as much as possible. The Hallman MBC is set to zero boost, but I need to watch how I'm driving. The OEM wastegate simply can't fully bypass. I thought that perhaps because the MBC was not allowing the engine to be in vacuum that it was contributing to heat. By that I mean it may be purging as much of the pressure as it can, it's also trying to keep pressure at zero. That perhaps rather than having vacuum having zero pressure is still pressurized compared to vacuum and thus creates heat. That theory was partially blown out of the water, I put a turbo hood on it yesterday hoping to see lower temps...and did not. (Before it is said, I'm using N/A hood until I get paint work done on the turbo hood and other parts. I keep thinking paint is going to happen and it hasn't yet.)

Other than obvious things where can I start looking for a cure?

1. Flushing radiator and cooling system. Should I flush the heater core seperately?
2. Testing the radiator cap. What pressure cap should a S5 13B T have?
3. Possibly a clogged oil cooler?
4. I have air pump removed and so far only a single belt alt pulley. I had a dual belt pulley with my last alt but usually only used one because of belt slipping. Never had issues with heating.

The engine parts and car did sit for almost a year while the rebuild happened. Is it possible I've got a clogged cooling system or oil cooler? I have both oil and water temp gauges and oil temps seem to be where they should be.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by JustJeff

I'm having overheating issues with the engine.

Is this something that just started to happen?
Was the system working fine prior to this?
Any changes to the cooling system?

Here is what I've noticed so far with normal driving (not driving it hard as I'm still breaking in the engine). Temps will keeping rising and rising and when they start to pass 220 I'll pull the car over and either let it idle with the efan running and hood up or turn off the engine but let the efan run and every so often turn the engine on to cycle what is in the radiator back into the engine.

Just to eliminate the obvious...
Is the fan pulling air in the correct direction?

N/A hood was being used. While I've been driving to avoid boost as much as possible. The Hallman MBC is set to zero boost, but I need to watch how I'm driving. The OEM wastegate simply can't fully bypass. I thought that perhaps because the MBC was not allowing the engine to be in vacuum that it was contributing to heat. By that I mean it may be purging as much of the pressure as it can, it's also trying to keep pressure at zero. That perhaps rather than having vacuum having zero pressure is still pressurized compared to vacuum and thus creates heat. That theory was partially blown out of the water, I put a turbo hood on it yesterday hoping to see lower temps...and did not. (Before it is said, I'm using N/A hood until I get paint work done on the turbo hood and other parts. I keep thinking paint is going to happen and it hasn't yet.)

Just a side note...
Any type of boost control is going to end up as a bleed-off system
This means that it's next to impossible to get the boost to "zero".
You can only adjust boost down to the base spring pressure - which is most cases is going to be about 7psi - 10psi on an FC turbo with an open exhaust.

Other than obvious things where can I start looking for a cure?

1. Flushing radiator and cooling system. Should I flush the heater core seperately?
2. Testing the radiator cap. What pressure cap should a S5 13B T have?
3. Possibly a clogged oil cooler?
4. I have air pump removed and so far only a single belt alt pulley. I had a dual belt pulley with my last alt but usually only used one because of belt slipping. Never had issues with heating.

Check to see if the radiator is OK:
Get engine warmed up and then check the entire area of the radiator core to see if heat is even; if there are localized spots that are cooler, you have a bad radiator (core).
Stock rated radiator cap is for about 0.9 bar or about 13psi.
I doubt the problem is with the oil system or the oil cooler - do you have an oil temp or oil pressure gauge?

Any reason you're not running double belts?
You really should be running two.
At low RPM's (under 3kRPM), the belt should not be slipping.
If the belt is slipping, it'll be obvious - you can see the pulley slip, and / or hear it slip.
You might also see a lot of excess black dust around the area of the pulleys where the belt is disintegrating.


-Ted

[JustJeff]

Originally Posted by RETed

Is this something that just started to happen?
Was the system working fine prior to this?
Any changes to the cooling system?



Just to eliminate the obvious...
Is the fan pulling air in the correct direction?



Just a side note...
Any type of boost control is going to end up as a bleed-off system
This means that it's next to impossible to get the boost to "zero".
You can only adjust boost down to the base spring pressure - which is most cases is going to be about 7psi - 10psi on an FC turbo with an open exhaust.




Check to see if the radiator is OK:
Get engine warmed up and then check the entire area of the radiator core to see if heat is even; if there are localized spots that are cooler, you have a bad radiator (core).
Stock rated radiator cap is for about 0.9 bar or about 13psi.
I doubt the problem is with the oil system or the oil cooler - do you have an oil temp or oil pressure gauge?

Any reason you're not running double belts?
You really should be running two.
At low RPM's (under 3kRPM), the belt should not be slipping.
If the belt is slipping, it'll be obvious - you can see the pulley slip, and / or hear it slip.
You might also see a lot of excess black dust around the area of the pulleys where the belt is disintegrating.


-Ted

The heating issue has been going on since rebuild was completed. I've noticed it more because I have been driving it further distances...before the car would drive to get errands. Maybe 10 min drive tops with intervals as long as half hour between the next destination. I was having issues with the efan blowing fuses so I thought temps were related to the fan going out on me. Efan wiring has been corrected, it is working as it should..and pulling air through the radiator.

I've had it parked for about a month now. Not related to heat issues, but I sent my injectors off to be cleaned and have in general been tired of working on it....so it sat.

I'm going to try a yoohoo belt and see what that does for temps. I'm not sure if I have slipping or not. The engine does make a noise it did not previously...but doesn't really sound like belt slipping. I previously had an FD alt and dual pulley. I could never get a matched pair that actually matched...I know slipping sound and this isn't quite it. It's almost like a chirping noise...which could be mild slipping and might only effect things once it's NOT idling.

I do not see it slipping, or have any dust, etc.

Reason I don't have dual belts is because I just got the 140 amp S5 alt and have not sourced one yet. I know the obvious places to get them, BUT I'm wanting to get an overdrive pulley. Yes, overdrive. The modded alt only sees 14v when rpms are above 1k or so. I'd like to find a dual pulley a little bit smaller than stock. Just haven't had time to research and find one.

One factor I had not considered before my post. I had the pulleys powder coated. I would not be at all surprised if that is a factor in slipping. I have a yoohoo belt ordered from Napa. I have read the arguments for and against. My plan is to see if single belt is a factor with my problem. If I have to I'll get an OEM sized dual pulley, but like I said I'd prefer overdrive so charging at idle. I'll report back findings.

I'll also be buying a temp gun to test my radiator...see if I have even temps.

For the oil cooler and such. I do have both aftermarket temp and pressure gauges. The pressure gauge I bought used and I think they gave me the wrong sender. According to tech support the gauge is registering that it is not plugged into the sender...but it is. The craptastic OEM pressure gauge reads about normal and the same as pre-rebuild. Oil temps seem normal. They rise slower than water. I'm not sure numbers off the top of my head, but it never struck me as out of line. Next time I'm driving it I'll get some numbers for both.

[reddozen]

lol... nice engine... looks very familiar...