800+rwhp 13B PP

[RICE RACING]

Hey PFS man, do up a video of how that car accelerates I'd love to see it.

Do you have a Race Logic VOBX or access to one? when you do you can post it up in this thread on fast fd http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ad.php?t=14704

We need MORE real cars that work and are quick. Your car should easily out accelerate a Buggati Veyron with that much power and low weight.
100kmh to 200kmh is the std, under 5 seconds and you will be the new super hero in the rotary world.

[RICE RACING]

LRT formula (proven across hundreds of road cars) with normal manual trans and say your running real road tires!

1310kg (real road weight FD rx7 with 1/4 tank fuel)
150mph (averaged over last 66ft of a 1320ft standing start test
= 870bhp

Your car should easily do that given your power band and "dyno proven power"

looking forward to the result.

You will see a road FD in the fast fd thread that has done a proven 140mph both at traps and via VBOX (at same location) with 1280kg run weight (anorexic owner and no poofter sub woofers installed!) and it ONLY did 525rwhp lol (385rwkw VBOX) real wheel power at track!

fact v's fiction

go test it, I'd love to see the actual results from this car IT WILL KILL A BUGATTI VEYRON which only does 142mph in a 1320ft acel test and its weight is FUCKEN MASSIVE LOL!!!

[RICE RACING]

100kmh to 200kmh is the international test standard. Eliminates all excuses (poor traction) poor shifting etc, you only need to change gear once, and it will prove your spread of power and ULTIMATE POWER.

You should EASILY do sub 5 seconds in this test, making you the worlds fastest street car (if you could do it on 93 octane) but regardless it will be impressive to see a 13B RX7 achieve that

A VBOX unit will be the only evidence I will accept, it will record your location, your average height/altitude and eliminate ALL cheating (unless you strap it to a rocket sled and cheat yourself lol).

smg944 is the only person to man up so far next to me
In the rotary world backing up hype dyno figures seems to be only second to 1200rwhp supra's that trap 120mph in the quarter mile LOL......

Buggati Veyron is the legitimate record holder with 4.7 seconds 100kmh to 200kmh
4650lb
(only) 1006bhp

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

100kmh to 200kmh is the international test standard. Eliminates all excuses (poor traction) poor shifting etc, you only need to change gear once, and it will prove your spread of power and ULTIMATE POWER.

You should EASILY do sub 5 seconds in this test, making you the worlds fastest street car (if you could do it on 93 octane) but regardless it will be impressive to see a 13B RX7 achieve that

A VBOX unit will be the only evidence I will accept, it will record your location, your average height/altitude and eliminate ALL cheating (unless you strap it to a rocket sled and cheat yourself lol).

smg944 is the only person to man up so far next to me
In the rotary world backing up hype dyno figures seems to be only second to 1200rwhp supra's that trap 120mph in the quarter mile LOL......

Buggati Veyron is the legitimate record holder with 4.7 seconds 100kmh to 200kmh
4650lb
(only) 1006bhp

You seem to be confused. I dont need nor am I seeking your approval. This all goes back to what I said in an earlier post. The nice thing about dynojet results is it almost completely removes the operator from the equation. On a DD dyno, the operator can influence the results, just as the result will vary from driver to driver using the VBox.

The bottom line is I know what this car is capable of and so do you. I asked you two questions after you made your first few comments, what do you consider to be acceptable torque output at 5-5.5k and what you consider high RPM to be. Because clearly according to you this car would not be capable of either (big torque output and high rpm)

I then posted a dyno graph answering some of Ted's questions showing the run with the RPM axis displayed. Now this graph didn't appear on your magical VBox, but I'm sure you read it plain as day on you monitor. Nice torque and high rpm from a 2 rotor.

After seeing that graph I understand why you wouldnt answer my original questions, you already had enough back paddling to do with you horse cock intake comment and the Scoot FD dyno results from 1984. Instead of just saying something positive (or god forbid nothing at all) you start in with your "real world boost not until 6k yada yada yada" which isnt the case and even if it was there was still another 4800 of USEABLE rpm to go.

Then is how long is this 10k engine last...

Next you want me to buy a VBox so I provide you with data? I politely reply explaining how I have a chassis dyno and have no need for a VBox.

Now I'm too cheap, and you can get the forum to buy one.

My full weight FD was trapping 145 mph a decade ago, I tuned that car on the same exact dyno I still use today. There nothing wrong with the dyno or the numbers.


Like I told you earlier, send me a Vbox and I'll send you back the magical Vbox data you want along with the VBox smashed into a million piece.

Let me know if you'd like me to video it too.

[RICE RACING]

No pedal power here mate, unlike yourself who has something to hide????

Anyway

An E-Mail has been sent and you should be able to borrow an instrument from us (will let you know) and then you can test your Buggati Veyron Beater

LOL

p.s. for Q16 and that turbo and a motor that is dubious in terms of reliability its a so so result............ about 20 years behind the times, but congrats on signing up and sharing nothing except your opinion of yourself and your abilities LOL.

[RICE RACING]

p.s. you can have 48000rpm of useable power LOL but honestly 6000rpm for full boost? on the road in transient conditions and not in your dyno room............ Please you and I know that is shit, nice for a dyno comp though LOL.

Proof is on the street, in the real world.

If you want to compare to drag cars most of us have done for 20+ years then you are around 400bhp short of where you need to be, so not much special to be praised nor adored mate.

The Greek Real Street FD3S I posted up makes more power, on less boost, and dare I say would not be a 10800rpm hand grenade either, not a horse cock manifold in sight nor a peripheral port either

[Fendamonky]

So I just found this thread, and all I can think of is "Whoa... simmer down Peter..." lol

All the personal attacks really don't make Ray look bad, and if anything his responses lend him more credibility (which I can only assume was not your end goal).

When it comes down to the truth of the matter PFS will build the car to the specs of what the customer asks for. If the customer wants something that is geared for street use than he'll build it with that as a focus, if the customer wants it to be used for drag purposes only (in the case of ET's car that you quoted earlier) than he'll build that. If the customer has a show car and wants impressive numbers with the option of ripping it up on a track, than PFS will build that too. At no point can Ray (or any builder/tuner for that matter) control how well the owner will drive a car once it's been paid for and taken home.

With regards to discrepancies in dyno figures, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when it comes to the reputation of American dyno's. When I was living in England and first started making power oriented modifications to my FD I was continuously disappointed because the numbers I thought I should be making (based off what I read on the 7club) were consistently and significantly different from the numbers I was receiving from my UK shops DynoDynamics dyno. I did a little research and realized that MOST American dynos showed 15-20% higher numbers than their UK and Australian equivelents. Though I felt a bit cheated, that knowledge certainly made me feel better about the difference on paper.

When I came home from the UK I took my car to the very same dyno that PFS is still using today. I took it there for three reasons: 1) He was the closest reputable shop to me, 2) I wanted to actually compare numbers between what the UK dyno showed, and what the Yank dynos spit out, and 3) I needed a re-map for US gas (93 octane, verses the UK 98 RON equiv to 94 octane).

Ray humored me and did a baseline run for initial power before he began tuning. Ray's dyno showed almost the exact same HP as the DD dyno that my car had been mapped on in the UK, if anything it was 5whp off. When Ray re-mapped my car for a LOWER octane rating I picked up significantly more HP for the same PSI level.


Now, changing tacks and closing out my post (this was initially meant to be very short, oh well... lol) I'll say that you know of my experiences with PFS and other US tuners. My overall opinion is that Ray/PFS turns out an excellent product (when it's finally done, lol) and I have nothing to legitimately complain about with regards to his craftsmanship or tuning abilities. (The side seal issue was a fluke, and Ray has taken steps to correct/rectify that.) The engine that my car was running on when I bought it was a PFS engine, and I beat the LIVING PISS out of it damned near every day in England. Rays engine took all that abuse and constantly begged for more, hell... my FD was more reliable than my diesel DD in England!!! If that doesn't say something than I don't know what will


I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, I'm just suggesting that perhaps you approached the subject from the start with pre-conceived notions that may have been mis-directed. PFS isn't a one trick pony full of fuck-ups (like BDC/HC), but it seems like you approached him with that expectation in mind. Ya know what I mean?


Cheers man

Levi

[RICE RACING]

I dont give a fuck who Ray thinks he is or what his pay to play customers think of him, period, he OBVIOUSLY has a pre conceived idea of me (obvious in his need to sign up here and talk shit) *I for one never herd of him, nor do I need to know anything about him*.

ALL that matters is that he can man up and test this car, end of story.

AND be FACTUAL about what engine this is, how reliable its been be it even from a previous customers car (as I easily found trolling the internet) AND what power it does on 93 octane, which HE NEVER EVER DECIDED TO POST BACK ABOUT.

Ball is in his court if he wants to be a man and join the fast FD club for real road cars, be my guest if he wants to sign up here and cast an opinion about me then he can join the proven club of nobody cunts who do similar things.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

So I just found this thread, and all I can think of is "Whoa... simmer down Peter..." lol

All the personal attacks really don't make Ray look bad, and if anything his responses lend him more credibility (which I can only assume was not your end goal).

When it comes down to the truth of the matter PFS will build the car to the specs of what the customer asks for. If the customer wants something that is geared for street use than he'll build it with that as a focus, if the customer wants it to be used for drag purposes only (in the case of ET's car that you quoted earlier) than he'll build that. If the customer has a show car and wants impressive numbers with the option of ripping it up on a track, than PFS will build that too. At no point can Ray (or any builder/tuner for that matter) control how well the owner will drive a car once it's been paid for and taken home.

With regards to discrepancies in dyno figures, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when it comes to the reputation of American dyno's. When I was living in England and first started making power oriented modifications to my FD I was continuously disappointed because the numbers I thought I should be making (based off what I read on the 7club) were consistently and significantly different from the numbers I was receiving from my UK shops DynoDynamics dyno. I did a little research and realized that MOST American dynos showed 15-20% higher numbers than their UK and Australian equivelents. Though I felt a bit cheated, that knowledge certainly made me feel better about the difference on paper.

When I came home from the UK I took my car to the very same dyno that PFS is still using today. I took it there for three reasons: 1) He was the closest reputable shop to me, 2) I wanted to actually compare numbers between what the UK dyno showed, and what the Yank dynos spit out, and 3) I needed a re-map for US gas (93 octane, verses the UK 98 RON equiv to 94 octane).

Ray humored me and did a baseline run for initial power before he began tuning. Ray's dyno showed almost the exact same HP as the DD dyno that my car had been mapped on in the UK, if anything it was 5whp off. When Ray re-mapped my car for a LOWER octane rating I picked up significantly more HP for the same PSI level.


Now, changing tacks and closing out my post (this was initially meant to be very short, oh well... lol) I'll say that you know of my experiences with PFS and other US tuners. My overall opinion is that Ray/PFS turns out an excellent product (when it's finally done, lol) and I have nothing to legitimately complain about with regards to his craftsmanship or tuning abilities. (The side seal issue was a fluke, and Ray has taken steps to correct/rectify that.) The engine that my car was running on when I bought it was a PFS engine, and I beat the LIVING PISS out of it damned near every day in England. Rays engine took all that abuse and constantly begged for more, hell... my FD was more reliable than my diesel DD in England!!! If that doesn't say something than I don't know what will


I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, I'm just suggesting that perhaps you approached the subject from the start with pre-conceived notions that may have been mis-directed. PFS isn't a one trick pony full of fuck-ups (like BDC/HC), but it seems like you approached him with that expectation in mind. Ya know what I mean?


Cheers man

Levi

Your English set up DD are massively exaggerated!!!!!!!!!!!!

See my build up thread where I do an analysis on a Euro Time Attack FD set up with E85 in a much lighter car that performed much worse than the dyno number would indicate.

I have been involved with many TA cars there where people have sent me rwhp figures from these things and they just did not make any sense to me as an engineer.

This is why I do NOT value any of these readings, most are run by cowboys, with dubious equipment, dodgy calibrations (or lack of) and @ the end of the day rubbish results that do not match reality.

It's just too easy to prove all of this to be crap, all it takes is an education and a $500 piece of scientific grade instrumentation and an honest operator. This is how we tell the difference between fact and fiction.

I do not care who you are or what you claim to be, just man up weigh the car, put in a proper piece of testing gear and provide me with the file, I'll do the hard work free of charge and verify it is what it is, then there is no doubt, no b.s., no excuses............. its all too simple

[RICE RACING]

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...t=10423&page=6
Taken from here for you mate ^ analysis of "dubious" Dyno Dynamics power claim, that really just does not add up to any kind of normal reality that I am aware of

"

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct?
That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket

Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines.

That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection.

For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention.

Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!!

Thanks very much.

On the power side its always an interesting debate/comparison. Mine is my own measure based on pure physics and engineering, I can't comment for others which vary depending on what dyno type people use. All I will say on the topic is my car accelerates faster and harder from 100kmh to 200kmh that some peoples RX7's that weight 120kg less and make (435rwhp as measured on a dyno dynamics machine!). **** Here is the link to an apparent 500+S-BHP (435rwhp Dyno Dynamics RX7 of 1180kg as run!) **** http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=631485&page=5 ........... you see why I value these toilet paper prints outs so highly 8.3++ seconds to my 7.53 seconds is an eternity.

(Below: stolen from gay shit hole club)
Just got back from Re-Worx !
Great job Geff and Max ! well done.

We mapped the car on E85
1600 and 850cc injectors are not enough with a base fuel pressure of 4.1BAR
We mapped at 0.9 Bar turbo pressure

all temps are just fine.. no knock no nothing
qoute from Geff: This engine likes running LEAN

432.2HP at the wheels at 0.9 BAR

flywheel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvcxX...layer_embedded 100kmh to 200kmh in 8.5 seconds!
*see what I mean* full throttle, full boost (actually higher than on dyno) 120kg less weight than me. And optimistic wheel speed sensors so in actual fact its probably slower than this indicated speed.

My long held experience after using almost every type of rolling road dyno over almost 2 decades is the vast majority of them are bullshit (over optimistic). This is why I bought my VBOX and developed my own power calculations as I know I can trust them and they do measure up to other cars in reality (production supercars).

There was a classic case of this on Motortrend a while back testing a R35GTR on a dynojet (using a guessing factor to estimate engine power @ 507bhp) then they took it to a real dyno that could calculate coast down power and actual wheel power (390awhp) and they worked out 485bhp V's factory spec of 480bhp. I have been lucky enough to work with both engine dyno and dynapack chassis dyno as a full time job at a University developing a FSAE power train, and I also got to exercise my development of my own power measure based on in vehicle tests so pretty much have seen it all and the variations you get between them.

My most important thing these days is spread of power (not just the peak), bit like your V8 conversion, its no point having a metric shit load of top end power and then never being able to translate that into any type of vehicle speed. The 100kmh to 200kmh test is graphic illustration of this, separates the dyno sheet racers from the people who can actually make a fast and reliable rotary

Over on the fag forum there was a bloke who listed up data logs of his ~1100kg RX7 that makes 435rwhp (dyno dynamics) on T04Z street port on E85 fuel (gutted open race exhaust) and on his video and data logging its doing 100kmh to 200kmh (off optimistic wheel speed sensors too!) in 8.3+ seconds.

I am very happy with my car and love the package nice that people here appreciate it as well, happy to share the information with enthusiasts who can appreciate the level of work and dedication it takes to make and prove beyond any doubt how fast a true street rotary can be "

[RICE RACING]

Has anyone tested or run this car yet in the real world?????

BUMP

Want to add it to the FAST FD thread

[calicrewchief]

http://www.sntrl.com/features/powerful/