Widebands

[My5ABaby]

Does anyone know if all the widebands listed thus far have dual outputs for gauges and aftermarket ECU?

[chibikougan]

PLX has the 0-1 and 0-5 volt outputs.

[My5ABaby]

Sooo.... yes? I know nothing about hooking them up. 0-5 goes to the gauge and 0-1 to the ECU?

[C. Ludwig]

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Sooo.... yes? I know nothing about hooking them up. 0-5 goes to the gauge and 0-1 to the ECU?

What ECU?

PFC only uses a 0-1V. Most all others have the ability to use a 0-5V.

[vex]

Most widebands have an output of 0-5v, many have dual outs which can be adjusted any way you see fit. I know that the Innovate LC-1 has a dual out with both programmable to any voltage requirement necessary. For instance; it can output a 0-5v on one line for the gauge and a 0-1v output on the other line for a stock ECU. You could then turn around and have it output 0-5v on both or even a 5-0v on one line and a 0-5v on the other.

[Rotary Evolution]

strange that Techedge isn't listed and is one of the most reliable widebands out there.

my Techedge with it's stock NTK sensor is about 10 years old and has tuned over 100 cars and has about 60k miles on it and still works perfectly. the only issue it has developed is the readout box i use is getting tired from being wrapped up and bent about a million times from tuning trips that the readout flickers sometimes if you bend the wires the wrong way. hooked it up once backwards to the battery, replaced the fuse and no issues.

i only use techedge and innovate widebands.

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

What ECU?

PFC only uses a 0-1V. Most all others have the ability to use a 0-5V.

the PowerFC uses 0-5v, the only one that i know of that still uses the archaic 0-1v standard is microtech(because it allows them to nickel and dime you on firmware/hardware upgrades).

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

strange that Techedge isn't listed and is one of the most reliable widebands out there.

my Techedge with it's stock NTK sensor is about 10 years old and has tuned over 100 cars and has about 60k miles on it and still works perfectly. the only issue it has developed is the readout box i use is getting tired from being wrapped up and bent about a million times from tuning trips that the readout flickers sometimes if you bend the wires the wrong way. hooked it up once backwards to the battery, replaced the fuse and no issues.

i only use techedge and innovate widebands.



the PowerFC uses 0-5v, the only one that i know of that still uses the archaic 0-1v standard is microtech(because it allows them to nickel and dime you on firmware/hardware upgrades).

Tech Edge is not listed cause it is the biggest heap of shit out there.

Made by a middle aged man out of his house in Canberra, Australia, I tested many units of his and threw them all back in his house window!
They are universally regarded as a total joke here, no one of any credability uses them at all.

In this day and age when you can deal with a real company (not a back yard home business) and you can buy product that is accurate why anyone would want to buy a heap of turd TE is beyond me

Innovate is not much better, I could write volumes on both, suffice to say save your money and deal with people and companies who's products are used by professionals and NOT hobby types and you will be fine.

P.S. Autronic use 0-1 in there SMC and SM2 computer, they are NOT nikle and dime! NOR is the BuLLSHIT spread by TE that a LSM-11 0-1 v sensor is inacurate either, its only supplied to almost all Dyno Dynamics machines and is STILL a workhorse to this day!... there is too much crap on the internet by groupie gagers who cant tell shit form clay and listen to equally retarded peopel form Canberra with their token Gadafi styled web blog rants (I.E. tech edge!).

[classicauto]

FYI Rob,

The AEM only shows 11:1 on the sweep. The gauge actually measures down to 10:1.

I'm using an NGK AFX Powerdex with an NTK sensor. Approaching 45,000kms on this sensor and controller without issues. Matches up to the many dyno's I've been to over the years.

Never tried the unit Peter's suggesting, but I've definetly had a handful of failrues regarding widebands. Whichever you choose - make sure it either comes with, or is compatible with, an NTK style sensor. Had about 3 bosch sensors burn up from passionate rotary heat. Yes, the NTK sensors are money - but they're worth it. The powerdex units do not use EPROM chips though (preset on each sensor) you simply recalibrate the unit after plugging in the NTK sensor and drive.

NGK has a 0-5v output also. Also of note - the Powerdex measures down to 9:1 AFR.....not that you need to measure that but I found it nice to know how far below 10 the mixtures were when shaping up a fuel table. (or measuring BDC's cruising tune ratios )

[Rotary Evolution]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Tech Edge is not listed cause it is the biggest heap of shit out there.

Made by a middle aged man out of his house in Canberra, Australia, I tested many units of his and threw them all back in his house window!
They are universally regarded as a total joke here, no one of any credability uses them at all.

In this day and age when you can deal with a real company (not a back yard home business) and you can buy product that is accurate why anyone would want to buy a heap of turd TE is beyond me

Innovate is not much better, I could write volumes on both, suffice to say save your money and deal with people and companies who's products are used by professionals and NOT hobby types and you will be fine.

P.S. Autronic use 0-1 in there SMC and SM2 computer, they are NOT nikle and dime! NOR is the BuLLSHIT spread by TE that a LSM-11 0-1 v sensor is inacurate either, its only supplied to almost all Dyno Dynamics machines and is STILL a workhorse to this day!... there is too much crap on the internet by groupie gagers who cant tell shit form clay and listen to equally retarded peopel form Canberra with their token Gadafi styled web blog rants (I.E. tech edge!).

i suppose to each their own. i have had good success with techedge and one of the most renknown tuners in the US, Steve Khan uses a Innovate wideband.

[My5ABaby]

Thanks for the info thus far. I'm leaning towards an Innovate for budget and Powerdex if I decide to spend some coin but more info is always appreciated.

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

strange that Techedge isn't listed and is one of the most reliable widebands out there.

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Any other thoughts? Suggestions?

[RICE RACING]

Innovate is a toy nothing more,

Put it in your dump pipe and you can count how long it will last in seconds.

Real pro's use NTK, everything else is junk, pure and simple.

The ONLY Bosch sensor that is acceptable on a rotary is the good old LSM-11 (which wsa originally designed for coal combustion furnaces) they are bullit proof and the most durable sensor around.

[Rotary Evolution]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Innovate is a toy nothing more,

Put it in your dump pipe and you can count how long it will last in seconds.

Real pro's use NTK, everything else is junk, pure and simple.

The ONLY Bosch sensor that is acceptable on a rotary is the good old LSM-11 (which wsa originally designed for coal combustion furnaces) they are bullit proof and the most durable sensor around.

i thought i did mention my TE is using a NTK... my bad.

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

my Techedge with it's stock NTK sensor is about 10 years old and has tuned over 100 cars and has about 60k miles on it and still works perfectly.

perhaps they have gone down in quality over the years? this unit is obviously older due to my comment. not that it matters, you are obviously biased anyways and not worthy of responding to a real discussion.

[RICE RACING]

Tech Edge never had any quality to start with

When I took my Autronic meter to his house! when I picked it up I foudn they had pulled it apart in a desperate attempt to reverse engineer the electronics cause they were too stupid to understand how Autronic make a LSM-11 sensor work.

Of ever funnier magnitiude was his demonstration of how it did not wark cause it would not respond to light fluid gas test lol. Then he went on to say when they trialed my meter on their factory test car( Ford Pinto!) compared to their TE unit "wideband" it was over one AFR out ! TE is a arse fest of a house based "company" always has been always will be. Over the years many shops have trialed his hack units and all have given them back to him after numerous problems running them where other units of reputable brands never ever had an issue.

I am sure he still operates his half arsed "home business" form his house in Canberra and his brothers house in his "American office" LOL. what a fuck burger!

[vex]

The LC-1 I have had in my car for over a year now without issue; however I cannot guarantee accuracy as I haven't sent out to be spec'd . I suppose if you have the cash to get the best, get the best, but for those who don't have $700 to spend on a setup get what works.

[NoDOHC]

Unfortunately Vex, you are too right. Not all of us have the infinite budget to spend on out hobby cars.

However, I have heard from two trusted sources (in real life, not on the internet - as Peter so despises) that the NTK sensors are considerably more robust.

I actually only use the wideband for tuning, I typically will either run open loop or throw in a narrow band after tuning for closed-loop operation. My AEM wideband worked for tuning many different cars.

Unfortunately, It developed a significant error over the years (about 2 AFR). What I thought was stoic was actually about 12.8:1. The inability to free-air calibrate allows for this drift.