auxiliary injection-who here has it? - Page 2

HDP · 09-20-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudemaaan

The yellow bottle is methanol (97-98%) the red bottle is Isopropanol (iso-heet)
Pure meth works out cheaper if you can find it.

Yes but HEET is always available less than 3 miles from my house.

speedjunkie · 09-11-2009, 08:42 AM

Thanks for your input!

So in your opinion, if using a 50/50 mix, would you suggest denatured alcohol (ethanol) instead of methanol?

Quote:

I've had my system not functioning at least once at 23 psi, but due to my fairly conservative tune and only using water my motor was fine.

That's EXACTLY why I would like to run just water.

Quote:

Another good option is to run 50/50, it has the best of both worlds and is more of a compromise between water or alcohol. Benefits include less usage over alcohol (smaller nozzle), better intake cooling over water, good knock suppressing effects, cost per volume is less then meth/alcohol, and less fuel pulled from the maps.

But THIS is why I wanna run 50/50 haha.

And I was not aware you could tune up on water either.

dudemaaan · 09-11-2009, 08:45 PM

If i was to run 50/50 i would probably go with meth and water since it's easier to come by. The corrosive effects wouldnt be as bad with a mix, but i would still find a system thats meant for it. If i wanted to run alcohol anyway.
.
I don't rely on every small tweek to make power, if i can keep my air temps reasonable and knock down i use more boost to make the power. Over 500 hp with a reliable tune is good enough for me. I'm not going to chase after another 15 hp and reduce reliability.

speedjunkie · 09-12-2009, 01:10 AM

You mean you'd use Denatured Alcohol? Cause I see that almost everywhere, whereas methanol is alot harder to find from what I can tell.

I agree, I'm not looking to make power off this, and I'm not looking to chase power. I'm mainly looking to use this for reliability.

dudemaaan · 09-12-2009, 02:54 AM

Actually I meant to say I would use methanol because it's cheaper, I also think it would have more of an effect on cooling the intake charge. It has a slightly lower flash point, and it requires more of it compared to ethanol to have the same effect of richening AFR's. This is due to the lower btu's. On the other hand if you're trying to run as little mixture as possible, ethanol would raise the effective octane higher per volume while still providing cooling effects to the intake charge.

Another thing to add. Some people think 50/50 is a gallon of water and gallon alcohol mixed together to make a 50/50 mix. But it's supposed to be 50/50 by weight not volume. 50/50 by volume is more like 30/70 alcohol/water. Which is probably a decent mixture as well, but there is a difference and people should be specific when comparing.

speedjunkie · 09-12-2009, 02:48 PM

Cool, thanks for clarifying. I think I'd heard about the weight vs. volume issue before but I forgot about it so I was thinking volume too. Thanks!

dudemaaan · 09-19-2009, 12:31 AM

Well I did some testing this evening with the preturbo water injection. Cruising temps were 33c (91*F) A good pull in 4th gear caused temps to increase to 42*c (107.6F) this was at 15 psi (low boost) I then let the temps settle back to 33C and did a pull on high boost (23 psi) temps went back to 42c. So it seems that even though the water isn't lowering the temps it's keeping them at a constant temperature regardless of how much boost I run. I would do a pull from 1st to 4th to further test, but my drag radials are too narrow and just spin all over the place. (even in 4th they spin @ 23 psi)

Oh yeah I use the fast reacting sensor mentioned in the other thread so temperatures are accurate.

HDP · 09-19-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudemaaan

Oh yeah I use the fast reacting sensor mentioned in the other thread so temperatures are accurate.

What other thread? I will probably get one, just need to get more info on it...

dudemaaan · 09-19-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDP

What other thread? I will probably get one, just need to get more info on it...

This thread. http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=8381

JDK · 09-20-2009, 09:35 AM

I have the same kit as the OP ( FJO gen 2), installed and working great

speedjunkie · 09-27-2009, 05:29 PM

^I have yet to even test mine. Did you have it tuned or did you just add some numbers/tune it yourself?

JDK · 09-27-2009, 06:09 PM

Worked fine from the get go, all the fail safe's worked great as well, just put my AFR's into the 9's on boost with no tuning....from 11.5's, still playing with the tuning.

speedjunkie · 09-28-2009, 11:28 AM

Well I need to get my car tuned again since I put on the new turbo kit, and I wanted to make sure the kit is working before I take it to TX to get it tuned.

Someone on the other forum said that when he tested the system, he put 50% water to be injected at 0psi. What number would I put in for it to do that? I put .5 and 0.5 and neither of them would stay, but I put 5 in there and that one stayed.

Also for RPM multiplier, he said he put .5, but it only gives the options of (symbol for divided by) 2 for example. Is that what I need to put in order to say .5?

dudemaaan · 09-28-2009, 12:09 PM

If you're using the tach signal (which is prefered) The correct setting should be divided by 2 for a 2 rotor rotary. (has the same tach signal as a 4 cyl engine)

The flow maps are based on a percentage of full flow. I'm pretty sure you can only use whole numbers. 0 would be 0% flow(no water flow). 50 would be 50% flow. How much flow that actually is depends on the injection mode you chose. (map vs rpm, map vs tps, map based, tps based*) and 100 would be 100% flow. (full open)

*Some modes are based off the cars fuel injector duty. The percent displayed in the WIC table is a percent of the fuel injector duty cycle. Example: WIC Table shows 80% and the measured fuel injection duty is 50% the WIC flow would be 80% of 50% = 60% of the maximum flow.

Do you have the user manual? It explains everything.
Manual, software and firmware can be found Here
Sofware screen shots

PS where in TX are you getting the car tuned?

speedjunkie · 09-28-2009, 11:31 PM

Thanks!

I'm actually using MAP vs. RPM because I was told by FJO and other guys with this kit that it's the preferred way for street cars. I have the tach wire hooked up too though, so I could use either.

OK cool, I was wondering if I was supposed to put 50 for 50%.

I was under the impression that the FJO kit could read off injector duty cycle, which is pretty much why I got it, but I haven't seen anyone mention it, nor have I seen it mentioned in the directions. Or is that what I would be using if I was reading off TPS?

I do have the user manual, I just keep forgetting to look at it again haha. Thanks again!

Oh I forgot to mention, I'm taking it to Rotary Performance.

09-11-2009, 08:45 PM	#3
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX Posts: 335 Rep Power: 18	If i was to run 50/50 i would probably go with meth and water since it's easier to come by. The corrosive effects wouldnt be as bad with a mix, but i would still find a system thats meant for it. If i wanted to run alcohol anyway. . I don't rely on every small tweek to make power, if i can keep my air temps reasonable and knock down i use more boost to make the power. Over 500 hp with a reliable tune is good enough for me. I'm not going to chase after another 15 hp and reduce reliability. __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap!

09-12-2009, 02:54 AM	#5
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX Posts: 335 Rep Power: 18	Actually I meant to say I would use methanol because it's cheaper, I also think it would have more of an effect on cooling the intake charge. It has a slightly lower flash point, and it requires more of it compared to ethanol to have the same effect of richening AFR's. This is due to the lower btu's. On the other hand if you're trying to run as little mixture as possible, ethanol would raise the effective octane higher per volume while still providing cooling effects to the intake charge. Another thing to add. Some people think 50/50 is a gallon of water and gallon alcohol mixed together to make a 50/50 mix. But it's supposed to be 50/50 by weight not volume. 50/50 by volume is more like 30/70 alcohol/water. Which is probably a decent mixture as well, but there is a difference and people should be specific when comparing. __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap!

09-19-2009, 12:31 AM	#7
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX Posts: 335 Rep Power: 18	Well I did some testing this evening with the preturbo water injection. Cruising temps were 33c (91F) A good pull in 4th gear caused temps to increase to 42c (107.6F) this was at 15 psi (low boost) I then let the temps settle back to 33C and did a pull on high boost (23 psi) temps went back to 42c. So it seems that even though the water isn't lowering the temps it's keeping them at a constant temperature regardless of how much boost I run. I would do a pull from 1st to 4th to further test, but my drag radials are too narrow and just spin all over the place. (even in 4th they spin @ 23 psi) Oh yeah I use the fast reacting sensor mentioned in the other thread so temperatures are accurate. __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap!

09-20-2009, 09:35 AM	#10
JDK I Yam What I Yam Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mississauga,ON CA Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	I have the same kit as the OP ( FJO gen 2), installed and working great __________________

09-27-2009, 06:09 PM	#12
JDK I Yam What I Yam Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mississauga,ON CA Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	Worked fine from the get go, all the fail safe's worked great as well, just put my AFR's into the 9's on boost with no tuning....from 11.5's, still playing with the tuning. __________________

09-12-2009, 01:10 AM	#4
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 20	You mean you'd use Denatured Alcohol? Cause I see that almost everywhere, whereas methanol is alot harder to find from what I can tell. I agree, I'm not looking to make power off this, and I'm not looking to chase power. I'm mainly looking to use this for reliability.

09-12-2009, 02:48 PM	#6
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 20	Cool, thanks for clarifying. I think I'd heard about the weight vs. volume issue before but I forgot about it so I was thinking volume too. Thanks!

09-27-2009, 05:29 PM	#11
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 20	^I have yet to even test mine. Did you have it tuned or did you just add some numbers/tune it yourself?

09-28-2009, 11:28 AM	#13
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 20	Well I need to get my car tuned again since I put on the new turbo kit, and I wanted to make sure the kit is working before I take it to TX to get it tuned. Someone on the other forum said that when he tested the system, he put 50% water to be injected at 0psi. What number would I put in for it to do that? I put .5 and 0.5 and neither of them would stay, but I put 5 in there and that one stayed. Also for RPM multiplier, he said he put .5, but it only gives the options of (symbol for divided by) 2 for example. Is that what I need to put in order to say .5?

09-28-2009, 12:09 PM	#14
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX Posts: 335 Rep Power: 18	If you're using the tach signal (which is prefered) The correct setting should be divided by 2 for a 2 rotor rotary. (has the same tach signal as a 4 cyl engine) The flow maps are based on a percentage of full flow. I'm pretty sure you can only use whole numbers. 0 would be 0% flow(no water flow). 50 would be 50% flow. How much flow that actually is depends on the injection mode you chose. (map vs rpm, map vs tps, map based, tps based) and 100 would be 100% flow. (full open) Some modes are based off the cars fuel injector duty. The percent displayed in the WIC table is a percent of the fuel injector duty cycle. Example: WIC Table shows 80% and the measured fuel injection duty is 50% the WIC flow would be 80% of 50% = 60% of the maximum flow. Do you have the user manual? It explains everything. Manual, software and firmware can be found Here Sofware screen shots PS where in TX are you getting the car tuned? __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap! Last edited by dudemaaan; 09-29-2009 at 01:53 AM.

09-28-2009, 11:31 PM	#15
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 20	Thanks! I'm actually using MAP vs. RPM because I was told by FJO and other guys with this kit that it's the preferred way for street cars. I have the tach wire hooked up too though, so I could use either. OK cool, I was wondering if I was supposed to put 50 for 50%. I was under the impression that the FJO kit could read off injector duty cycle, which is pretty much why I got it, but I haven't seen anyone mention it, nor have I seen it mentioned in the directions. Or is that what I would be using if I was reading off TPS? I do have the user manual, I just keep forgetting to look at it again haha. Thanks again! Oh I forgot to mention, I'm taking it to Rotary Performance. Last edited by speedjunkie; 09-29-2009 at 01:30 AM.