Dispelling Myths: Using RX-8 internals in a 13B-REW - Page 3

C. Ludwig · 01-06-2009, 10:10 AM

I don't believe anyone has noted the fact that the oil passage on the stationary gears does not line up properly with the passage in the non-Renesis irons. It's an easy matter to open up the passage of the gear to match the iron. The rear gear has about half the passage shadowed.

sbrian2 · 01-06-2009, 10:35 AM

I'll add another point to this thread. We had a small oil leak on Dan's car toward the end of the year. When we pulled the engine this winter we found that the o-ring on the rear stationary gear was not sealing properly and that was the source of the leak. Upon disassembly, we found that the o-ring had pretty much self destructed on the rough casting of the rear iron and we chose to re-assemble without the o-ring and just use RTV instead. With that being said, the additional machining that I had done to the rear gear is probably unnecessary so long as you use RTV instead of the o-ring.

C. Ludwig · 01-07-2009, 09:17 AM

I've never tired to use an o-ring with the rear gear but I have used RTV (Right Stuff) and Hylomar. Both have worked equally well.

1twistedrx7 · 01-20-2009, 04:02 PM

part #s ,pics and very well explained .i wish they were all these clean .great job man

BSC Motorsports · 03-08-2009, 01:21 PM

Good right up, I've used rx8 shafts in rew's due to the weight and price difference. Good to see all the info in one place and properly displayed.

Brent

Monkman33 · 07-31-2009, 01:34 PM

I am sure it has been discussed elsewhere, but I was hoping to get it added to this thread:

What about using RX-8 rotors in the 13B-REW?

If one wasn't looking for more than 7-10 lbs of boost, and used water injection, and wasn't looking for peak numbers, but wanted lots more on the low end.... wouldn't these be a good option?

Aside from machining the apex seal groove out deeper (I am unsure of the validity of this) what else would be required?

NoDOHC · 07-31-2009, 10:36 PM

RX8 rotors are 10:1 aren't they? Isn't that a bit heavy on a turbo car?

Monkman33 · 11-13-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

RX8 rotors are 10:1 aren't they? Isn't that a bit heavy on a turbo car?

There are plenty of turbo-charged RX-8's out there. My question pertains to the compatibility. If someone wanted the most low-end they could get and then run 6-8 lbs of boost... the curiosity becomes whether or not the RX-8 rotors are drop in for an REW.

I don't necessarily plan on doing it, just curious if it is possible. I might build my backup engine this way just for S&Gs if there are no fitment issues.

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-13-2009, 06:34 PM

Very true. One of the reasons that I went with the RX8 E-shaft. My memory says closer to $150 for the shaft.

Monkman33 · 11-20-2009, 03:03 PM

So... my original question still stands

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-20-2009, 10:39 PM

No, the Apex seals are different requiring milling of the rotor itself. And I believe there are some descrepancies with the rotor side landing clearances that need to be addressed

Missed the question the first time, sorry

Monkman33 · 11-26-2009, 01:04 PM

Hmmmm...

What do you mean by side landing clearances? Did they move the side seal location to a point where it would cause a problem with the stock REW port?

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-26-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racing Beat

Rotor Clearancing

A second concern for rotors used near or above 8,500 RPM is the clearance between the sides of the rotor and the side housings. The construction and assembly of the rotor and rotor gear is such that both sides of the rotor have a portion, referred to as the “land”, that protrudes out from the rotor “side” several thousandths of an inch. For measuring purposes, detailed below, the “land” on the side of the rotor containing the rotor gear is the face of the rotor gear itself. The “land” on the opposite side of the rotor is the circular portion of the rotor surrounded by the inner oil seal. These features need to be taken into consideration when clearancing the rotor.

The first step in preparing a rotor for clearancing is to measure the thickness of the rotor housing being paired with the rotor at eight evenly spaced points to determine the minimum or narrowest point of thickness of the rotor housing. This minimum thickness becomes the “base line” for the calculation process.

Now, measure the thickness of the rotor and rotor gear assembly at three different points from the “land” on one side to the “land” on the other side. Select the maximum, or widest, thickness of this assembly and subtract this number from the base line number previously obtained. We have found that the following clearances work well:

Clearance between side housings and rotor maximum “land” width:
12A Engines (.009” +/- .001”)
or 13B Engines (.010” +/- .001”)

“Land” protrusion from rotor side: .0055” +/- .0005” (each side). This “land” clearance is obtained by machining away material from the “side” of the rotor, thus leaving the “land” extending from the rotor “side” by the specified amount.

It is entirely possible, based on the production tolerances we have seen over the years that you may need to remove as little as .001” to. 002” from each surface to achieve the recommended clearance. In other words, some of the clearance required already exists.

There is also the portion between the oils seals and the side seals that need to be addressed as well as the portion of the rotor from the side seals out.

This is all very OLD knowledge to me as I decided years ago that I was going to turbo charge my 13B-RE as opposed to build a high-revving n/a engine using the renni rotors.

Monkman33 · 11-27-2009, 12:42 AM

What are the differences between the REW clearances and rotors sizes compared to the MSP? If there is a small amount of additional clearance, it seems it might actually be better suited for high rpm power levels?

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-27-2009, 11:27 AM

Check the FSM's, I'm sure someone has the RX8's FSM up by now

01-06-2009, 10:10 AM	#1
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN Posts: 494 Rep Power: 18	I don't believe anyone has noted the fact that the oil passage on the stationary gears does not line up properly with the passage in the non-Renesis irons. It's an easy matter to open up the passage of the gear to match the iron. The rear gear has about half the passage shadowed. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

01-06-2009, 10:35 AM	#2
sbrian2 Rotary Wannabee Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: M'boro TN Posts: 50 Rep Power: 18	I'll add another point to this thread. We had a small oil leak on Dan's car toward the end of the year. When we pulled the engine this winter we found that the o-ring on the rear stationary gear was not sealing properly and that was the source of the leak. Upon disassembly, we found that the o-ring had pretty much self destructed on the rough casting of the rear iron and we chose to re-assemble without the o-ring and just use RTV instead. With that being said, the additional machining that I had done to the rear gear is probably unnecessary so long as you use RTV instead of the o-ring. __________________ -Brian '95 Mazda Miata R package '90 Mazda Miata turbo '06 Chevrolet Trailblazer SS '01 BMW 325Ci '91 Honda CRX hf

01-07-2009, 09:17 AM	#3
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN Posts: 494 Rep Power: 18	I've never tired to use an o-ring with the rear gear but I have used RTV (Right Stuff) and Hylomar. Both have worked equally well. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

01-20-2009, 04:02 PM	#4
1twistedrx7 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 411 Rep Power: 0	part #s ,pics and very well explained .i wish they were all these clean .great job man __________________ Rotary Performance Motors(DGRRXI)sponsor 2011 RPM sale complete rebuilt your choice ported or bridge port short block W/RA seals 2300 no core required plus shipping. we now offer powder coating! 93 mb touring patring out sold! 93 vr touring sold 93vr died violently 93 ssm touring sold 93 black 20b project and a lot of money! underestimated !! http://rotorfest.lefora.com

03-08-2009, 01:21 PM	#5
BSC Motorsports The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Innisfil Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	Good right up, I've used rx8 shafts in rew's due to the weight and price difference. Good to see all the info in one place and properly displayed. Brent __________________ www.bscmotorsports.ca

07-31-2009, 01:34 PM	#6
Monkman33 Still Building my FD Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasco, WA Posts: 255 Rep Power: 17	I am sure it has been discussed elsewhere, but I was hoping to get it added to this thread: What about using RX-8 rotors in the 13B-REW? If one wasn't looking for more than 7-10 lbs of boost, and used water injection, and wasn't looking for peak numbers, but wanted lots more on the low end.... wouldn't these be a good option? Aside from machining the apex seal groove out deeper (I am unsure of the validity of this) what else would be required?

07-31-2009, 10:36 PM	#7
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	RX8 rotors are 10:1 aren't they? Isn't that a bit heavy on a turbo car? __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

11-13-2009, 06:34 PM	#9
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Very true. One of the reasons that I went with the RX8 E-shaft. My memory says closer to $150 for the shaft. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-20-2009, 03:03 PM	#10
Monkman33 Still Building my FD Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasco, WA Posts: 255 Rep Power: 17	So... my original question still stands

11-20-2009, 10:39 PM	#11
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	No, the Apex seals are different requiring milling of the rotor itself. And I believe there are some descrepancies with the rotor side landing clearances that need to be addressed Missed the question the first time, sorry __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-26-2009, 01:04 PM	#12
Monkman33 Still Building my FD Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasco, WA Posts: 255 Rep Power: 17	Hmmmm... What do you mean by side landing clearances? Did they move the side seal location to a point where it would cause a problem with the stock REW port?

11-27-2009, 12:42 AM	#14
Monkman33 Still Building my FD Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasco, WA Posts: 255 Rep Power: 17	What are the differences between the REW clearances and rotors sizes compared to the MSP? If there is a small amount of additional clearance, it seems it might actually be better suited for high rpm power levels?

11-27-2009, 11:27 AM	#15
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Check the FSM's, I'm sure someone has the RX8's FSM up by now __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**