My RX7SP build up - Page 5

RICE RACING · 12-06-2010, 08:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2YVuJg4rSg

As fast as a Pagani Zonda and Ferrari F40, I'll put up the VBOX proof later

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorpsi1

Quote:

And that was on Rice's private test track, not some traction prepped drag strip. I seem to recall that the 'supercar' benchmark of the Ford GTHO was around 14.4 or even as low as 14.1. You'd run that with the air con and stereo pumping!

Pete, out of inane curiousity.... what is the highest peak g-force you've managed to log or come across on 'street' tyres? .72 looks pretty good.

i have had cars pull over 1G of accelleration (around 1-1.15G actually)on the street on street tyres,all have been evo's or wrx's or sti's though,i have had my rx7 as hi as 0.95G on the street,and some other cars in the hi 0.8's,all rwd and in the 12 sec bracket.that should give u an idea

i can garauntee the peak g reading u get on the v box will be in first gear,unless ur getting heavy wheelspin,but i doubt it,adn a low 13sec car will not pull 0.72G in second gear thats for sure.

my 1150kg rx7 with 360rwhp and toyo proxes tyres does just over 0.8G in second gear,thats zero wheelpsin and all power,and about 0.65G in 3rd,to give u an idea again,thats harder than most cars pull in first,and im in 3rd

also,u need a G graph,as peak doesnt give u a true idea,if u have huge grip and no power,u can give a huge dump and create a massive g froce spike on launch but it may only last an instant,then falls away to the normal g force.

Please tell me what G you have @ exactly 130kph in 3rd gear when doing a pull from 100 to 160kph *no gear change shunts*.... If you can tell me any G between revs of 6600rpm to 8000rpm in 3rd gear, but preferably at the above road speed to compare and apple to an apple
I tested a car today on road tires 235's that did a honest 0.657G :bow: which is 35% more G than a Pagani Zonda !!!!! which is at its power peak at that speed.
This car 11.4% wheel slip (so near perfect traction capacity) @ 24psi gauge boost pressure 2.6bar absolute pressure *948kpa and 35 deg C! test conditions*.Pump fuel and my WATER INJECTION

The car I tested has 260% more acceleration force than a Spirit R type A @ 130kph which in its own right is not a slow car :laugh:

**110kph to 144kph** (all listed in one gear with no changes involved)
1.55 sec in 54 meters
^ test car
1.83 sec in 65 meters
^ Pagani Zonda
2.42 sec in 86 meters
^ F360 Ferrari
2.91 sec in 103 meters
^ 230rwkw Spirit R Type A

RICESP is 1.84 seconds in 65.38 meters
*Pagani Zonda its test is slighly down hill so I will call myself just as fast! probably faster, have more top end G *acceleration* where as it's Mazzive 6+lt N/A V12 has a superior spread of power*. (It traps 128mph in 400m test) we both do similar 0-100kmh times for what its worth (within 0.1 seconds). I'll update with a full test when time permits

along with overlays between the two cars

EDIT (additional info, back up of first result)
17th Dec 2010 TESTS RICESP is 1.82 seconds in 64.53 meters *From Aerodrome test* SO ITS *officially* FASTER THAN A ZONDA !

RICE RACING · 12-10-2010, 08:36 PM

Here is the graph showing some detail of various parameters & performance. Average figures between test lines shown (Avg-b) *report screen* and peak on datum line of graph in top left box snapshot of instant Graph data figures at that point.

RICE RACING · 12-11-2010, 08:23 AM

I'll post up some other incremental times of the F40, I have 3 separate tests (one factory) two independent (USA and UERO models) and on peak power band test 60mph to 90mph and 70mph to 90mph I have ........

(Peak power band for all cars)

60mph-90mph
EURO F40 = 2.70 seconds
USA F40 = 2.90 seconds
RICESP = 2.59 seconds

70mph-90mph
EURO F40 = 1.90 seconds
USA F40 = 2.10 seconds
RICESP = 1.76 seconds

^ back this up with 2.56 and 1.73 seconds (on a quite damp track too)

so no one hit wonder

RICE RACING · 12-17-2010, 10:36 PM

New record for my little cat equipped road going RX7 100kmh to 200kmh of 7.53 seconds!

RICE RACING · 12-18-2010, 01:59 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqvaMTJZn8k

Trout2 · 12-11-2010, 05:21 PM

You tube says you're video is private.

NoDOHC · 12-12-2010, 01:18 AM

Wow! Emissions legal. Your impressive numbers are even more impressive now.

RICE RACING · 12-13-2010, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

Wow! Emissions legal. Your impressive numbers are even more impressive now.

Thanks man,

I worked very hard to achieve this set up

It was allot of fun doing the research and also history check of the supercars I compare my RICESP special too

Not sure if most appreciate it

but there is a full time job alone in learning all of the VBOX stuff and the way I have applied it to measure power and do the things I want it to do. It's been a great adventure along the way, had the odd little set back

but I worked it all out and with the support of some great friends giving me motivation more than anything I showed that despite ANY set back or numerous hater attacks against you that you can win through and class/brains/god given talent wins in the end, no matter what haters/cunts may say about you or your car

Like we all know, its easy to open your wallet and charge up the credit card to get people to build you a car or many parts of it, its another thing all together to design, build, tune, and test/prove it all 100% yourself

NoDOHC · 12-13-2010, 09:49 PM

That is a fact. It may cost more, but you get the knowlege too.

I would love to be able to afford your toys and do my own development (I can barely afford to pay a couple hundred bucks for a dyno pull).

For the record, your car pulls harder in 3rd than mine does in 2nd. INSANE!

Keep up the good work!

FC3S Murray · 12-21-2010, 01:59 PM

Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct?
That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket

Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines.

That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection.

For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention.

Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!!

RICE RACING · 12-21-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct?
That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket

Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines.

That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection.

For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention.

Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!!

Thanks very much.

On the power side its always an interesting debate/comparison. Mine is my own measure based on pure physics and engineering, I can't comment for others which vary depending on what dyno type people use. All I will say on the topic is my car accelerates faster and harder from 100kmh to 200kmh that some peoples RX7's that weight 120kg less and make (435rwhp as measured on a dyno dynamics machine!). **** Here is the link to an apparent 500+S-BHP (435rwhp Dyno Dynamics RX7 of 1180kg as run!) **** http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=631485&page=5 ........... you see why I value these toilet paper prints outs so highly

8.3++ seconds to my 7.53 seconds is an eternity.

(Below: stolen from gay shit hole club)
Just got back from Re-Worx !
Great job Geff and Max ! well done.

We mapped the car on E85
1600 and 850cc injectors are not enough with a base fuel pressure of 4.1BAR
We mapped at 0.9 Bar turbo pressure

all temps are just fine.. no knock no nothing
qoute from Geff: This engine likes running LEAN

432.2HP at the wheels at 0.9 BAR

flywheel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvcxX...layer_embedded 100kmh to 200kmh in 8.5 seconds!
*see what I mean* full throttle, full boost (actually higher than on dyno) 120kg less weight than me. And optimistic wheel speed sensors so in actual fact its probably slower than this indicated speed.

My long held experience after using almost every type of rolling road dyno over almost 2 decades is the vast majority of them are bullshit (over optimistic). This is why I bought my VBOX and developed my own power calculations as I know I can trust them and they do measure up to other cars in reality (production supercars).

There was a classic case of this on Motortrend a while back testing a R35GTR on a dynojet (using a guessing factor to estimate engine power @ 507bhp) then they took it to a real dyno that could calculate coast down power and actual wheel power (390awhp) and they worked out 485bhp V's factory spec of 480bhp. I have been lucky enough to work with both engine dyno and dynapack chassis dyno as a full time job at a University developing a FSAE power train, and I also got to exercise my development of my own power measure based on in vehicle tests so pretty much have seen it all and the variations you get between them.

My most important thing these days is spread of power (not just the peak), bit like your V8 conversion, its no point having a metric shit load

of top end power and then never being able to translate that into any type of vehicle speed. The 100kmh to 200kmh test is graphic illustration of this, separates the dyno sheet racers from the people who can actually make a fast and reliable rotary

Over on the fag forum there was a bloke who listed up data logs of his ~1100kg RX7 that makes 435rwhp (dyno dynamics) on T04Z street port on E85 fuel (gutted open race exhaust) and on his video and data logging its doing 100kmh to 200kmh (off optimistic wheel speed sensors too!) in 8.3+ seconds.

I am very happy with my car and love the package

nice that people here appreciate it as well, happy to share the information with enthusiasts who can appreciate the level of work and dedication it takes to make and prove beyond any doubt how fast a true street rotary can be

RICE RACING · 12-22-2010, 03:13 AM

I have been into rotaries since 1992 (bought my first RX7) and in all that time I can say I have not till now felt content with a car and its set up. After taking the beast out for a drive now I cant do the typed word justice in trying to express how fucking awesome it is to have a quiet nice to drive rotary, that behaves beautifully, drives nice, and is fuel efficient and able to be filled up anywhere and driven over 900km on a single tank of fuel

It's a top long distance touring machine, something you just don't seen anymore with poofter fueled (E85 shitbox's) and rampant excuse machines that never do anything or go anywhere, except on tow trucks or trailers to the pusher (I mean workshop) for a undercover rebuild between BS dyno sheet postings or $10 plastic trophy battles of glory

It's not the most powerful car I have owned, nor by any stretch the fastest I have been tuned or developed for customers, but its by far the best all round package. It's smooth as silk, and one brief step of the pedal away its an animal all in one set up, the video's just don't do it justice as to how the nose lifts when you stand on the throttle in 3rd gear and at such low rpm......... and the sweeeeeeeet rotary noise through the SMB exhaust is sex.

Anyone who does not get to feel the rotary enjoyment all I can tell you is that if you work at it (never give up) and put in half as much work as I have you too can feel the love

RICE RACING · 12-22-2010, 08:08 PM

No you see why I have very little respect for common "chassis dyno's" FFS the Dyno Homo Dynamics is meant to read much lower than a Dynojet! and it reads a shit load lower than a Dynapack, and I say and can prove that the figures coming of a Dyno Homo Dynamics are totally FICTIONAL! not represent by any form of reality!

My real power measure is on average 15% to 18% lower than the Aussie DD!!! but its REAL POWER!! not made up bullshit with all kinds of hidden factors in the calculations!!!! and it matches REALITY and other cars from real manufacturers and also basics to do with fuel usage, Volutmetric efficiency, thermal efficiency, and vehicle performance. My RX7 only has around 480bhp to 490bhp at my estimate at the current setting, that is what the engineering says......... not a worthless dyno sheet from some doctored estimating guessing machine.

It's no wonder NONE of the cars who sprout of dyno sheet figures can give matching acceleration proof compared to "real supercars" say like a Ferrari F40 that weighs in at 1400kg and only uses a ~480bhp engine power form of propulsion

: smash:

Dyno Sheets!

I dedicated a whole thread to it here > http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...it=kerb+weight and typically only old school people who have allot of experience understand the reality of what we face in the modern HYPE world

diabolical1 · 01-03-2011, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

... I can't do the typed word justice in trying to express how fucking awesome it is to have a quiet nice to drive rotary, that behaves beautifully, drives nice, and is fuel efficient and able to be filled up anywhere and driven over 900km on a single tank of fuel ...

well done, man.

what you said there is what matters! setting all the commentaries, opinions, bashing and business rhetoric aside, THIS is what it's all about ... enjoyment. it sounds like you've achieved it and to me, that's worth more than any other claim one can make.

RICE RACING · 01-03-2011, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabolical1

well done, man.

what you said there is what matters! setting all the commentaries, opinions, bashing and business rhetoric aside, THIS is what it's all about ... enjoyment. it sounds like you've achieved it and to me, that's worth more than any other claim one can make.

Well said

Have had a really great time over the holidays, just today she has had a chance to rest (back to work tomorrow

) covered around 2000km, today was fun slotting her back into 3rd and passing cars revs flaring and wheel spinning

at rocketing to 100mph, its a real beast, enough power on tap and its there any time, no excuses

Last week I went to go see a good friend of mine (150km round trip) *he is a local legend drag racer* we got out there, and he asked "can you take me for a drive?" now worries we went for a run... he was flat out impressed, said it accelerates harder than his drag car and best thing is its quiet and drives like stock. < Valued opinions from old boys like this who I admire mean more to me than most opinions as Its objective and holds value (coming from a person of note, an achiever not an internet dreamer!@), especially coming from a piston turbo man too

As I said to him, "the thing that is important to me is to drive wherever I want and go for a run like we did no excuses", no qualifications or preparation, no trailers, no tow trucks!!, no BDC style blow ups.

A road going rotary should be just that, a thing you can get in and drive it to your hearts content and enjoy all of the power you have any time any place, I love my car

12-10-2010, 08:36 PM	#2
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	Here is the graph showing some detail of various parameters & performance. Average figures between test lines shown (Avg-b) report screen and peak on datum line of graph in top left box snapshot of instant Graph data figures at that point. __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-11-2010, 08:23 AM	#3
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	I'll post up some other incremental times of the F40, I have 3 separate tests (one factory) two independent (USA and UERO models) and on peak power band test 60mph to 90mph and 70mph to 90mph I have ........ (Peak power band for all cars) 60mph-90mph EURO F40 = 2.70 seconds USA F40 = 2.90 seconds RICESP = 2.59 seconds 70mph-90mph EURO F40 = 1.90 seconds USA F40 = 2.10 seconds RICESP = 1.76 seconds ^ back this up with 2.56 and 1.73 seconds (on a quite damp track too) so no one hit wonder __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration Last edited by RICE RACING; 12-17-2010 at 10:46 PM.

12-17-2010, 10:36 PM	#4
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	New record for my little cat equipped road going RX7 100kmh to 200kmh of 7.53 seconds! __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration Last edited by RICE RACING; 12-17-2010 at 10:40 PM.

12-18-2010, 01:59 AM	#5
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqvaMTJZn8k __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration Last edited by RICE RACING; 12-18-2010 at 03:13 AM.

12-12-2010, 01:18 AM	#7
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	Wow! Emissions legal. Your impressive numbers are even more impressive now. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

12-11-2010, 05:21 PM	#6
Trout2 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 104 Rep Power: 18	You tube says you're video is private.

12-13-2010, 09:49 PM	#9
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	That is a fact. It may cost more, but you get the knowlege too. I would love to be able to afford your toys and do my own development (I can barely afford to pay a couple hundred bucks for a dyno pull). For the record, your car pulls harder in 3rd than mine does in 2nd. INSANE! Keep up the good work! __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

12-21-2010, 01:59 PM	#10
FC3S Murray frustrated! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana Posts: 611 Rep Power: 17	Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct? That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines. That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection. For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention. Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!! __________________ Same pig, new soul Last edited by FC3S Murray; 12-21-2010 at 02:15 PM.

12-22-2010, 03:13 AM	#12
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	I have been into rotaries since 1992 (bought my first RX7) and in all that time I can say I have not till now felt content with a car and its set up. After taking the beast out for a drive now I cant do the typed word justice in trying to express how fucking awesome it is to have a quiet nice to drive rotary, that behaves beautifully, drives nice, and is fuel efficient and able to be filled up anywhere and driven over 900km on a single tank of fuel It's a top long distance touring machine, something you just don't seen anymore with poofter fueled (E85 shitbox's) and rampant excuse machines that never do anything or go anywhere, except on tow trucks or trailers to the pusher (I mean workshop) for a undercover rebuild between BS dyno sheet postings or $10 plastic trophy battles of glory It's not the most powerful car I have owned, nor by any stretch the fastest I have been tuned or developed for customers, but its by far the best all round package. It's smooth as silk, and one brief step of the pedal away its an animal all in one set up, the video's just don't do it justice as to how the nose lifts when you stand on the throttle in 3rd gear and at such low rpm......... and the sweeeeeeeet rotary noise through the SMB exhaust is sex. Anyone who does not get to feel the rotary enjoyment all I can tell you is that if you work at it (never give up) and put in half as much work as I have you too can feel the love __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-22-2010, 08:08 PM	#13
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	No you see why I have very little respect for common "chassis dyno's" FFS the Dyno Homo Dynamics is meant to read much lower than a Dynojet! and it reads a shit load lower than a Dynapack, and I say and can prove that the figures coming of a Dyno Homo Dynamics are totally FICTIONAL! not represent by any form of reality! My real power measure is on average 15% to 18% lower than the Aussie DD!!! but its REAL POWER!! not made up bullshit with all kinds of hidden factors in the calculations!!!! and it matches REALITY and other cars from real manufacturers and also basics to do with fuel usage, Volutmetric efficiency, thermal efficiency, and vehicle performance. My RX7 only has around 480bhp to 490bhp at my estimate at the current setting, that is what the engineering says......... not a worthless dyno sheet from some doctored estimating guessing machine. It's no wonder NONE of the cars who sprout of dyno sheet figures can give matching acceleration proof compared to "real supercars" say like a Ferrari F40 that weighs in at 1400kg and only uses a ~480bhp engine power form of propulsion : smash: Dyno Sheets! I dedicated a whole thread to it here > http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...it=kerb+weight and typically only old school people who have allot of experience understand the reality of what we face in the modern HYPE world __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration Last edited by RICE RACING; 12-22-2010 at 08:14 PM.