General Tuning Advice (Complete with data)

[NoDOHC]

Originally Posted by Judge Ito

like asking me the timing specs on my nephews turbo II?

Originally Posted by Judge Ito

it's no big deal.. here to share..i will try running leading on a wasted spark mode with the msd 6al later on to make a comparison..

The purpose of this thread is to list good tuning advice and the some real-world data to back it up.

I can speak to NA tuning (and will do so later) but I thought it best to query Judge Ito to expand on the teaser that he threw out in the anti-thread to this one.

And I surrender the floor to Judge Ito, TitaniumTT, Rice Racing and any other experienced turbo engine tuner who has real-world data to back up claims. Please list the basics of tuning a turbo rotary (ignition timing, trailing split, wasted spark vs. direct fire on leading, Air Fuel ratios, Water injection, etc.)

[My5ABaby]

*Waits anxiously*

[RICE RACING]

Turbo Rotary Exhaust Systems *Road cars*

I'll contribute with a related item (topic above).

http://www.smb.net.au/products.htm (Full RX7 systems and individual components, race tested! in real endurance races for rotaries, not hobby hacks! or private attempts but full factory backing world beating efforts!)

I have been running and testing SMB (Special Mens Business) for about 6 years now. This company (Walker Manufacturing) made the original SP specification exhaust for the race RX7's which dominated the worlds best manufacturers in the ultimate production version of the FD3S (Mazda RX7SP).

http://www.walkerman.com.au/



http://www.smb.net.au/mazdarx7certificate.htm

I have been doing long term durability and power testing on a full single turbo "ultimate street system" that is fully road compliant, for noise level and emissions better than OEM levels. The parts are featured below (see std of quality and performance.

Full catalyst and middle muffler.

TEST VEHICLE SET UP (RICESP)


Sensor arrangement (turbine pressure, turbine speed, exhaust pressure, AFR, EGT each rotor to name a few parameters, real time power, velocity and time to back it up)




(RR turbine pipe, WG legal, SMB supplied flanges and bends)


Exhaust specifications 3.5", race quality (power wise) Catalyst (Performance Weaponry, another business arm of Walker/SMB), SMB 3.5" middle muffler, SMB pipe work, SMB rear SP specification rear muffler, all in 3.5" diameter and internals.
Here is pics of new super high flow cat, and picture of std 4" metal substrate cat.
To give you an idea I have measured 238rwkw on the std MS cat and no cat at all yielded 235rwkw! at same boost pressure.

The new version is for 450rwkw region! has basically the same flow as 3.5" straight pipe in flow testing.
















VBOX3i and RR file test report set up 100kmh to 200kmh in 7.5 seconds, note better than 1:1 exhaust pressure on a full catalyst system, see video for noise level (quiet and nice sounding) this is good tuning parts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqvaMTJZn8k (video)



Air Strip testing 100kmh to 200kmh acceleration and power logging


Comparison to another FULL SMB muffler equipped vehicle (ND4SPD Capella)

To give this comparison test some context:
RICESP (stock std 13B-REW engine, full catalyst exhaust, T04 type turbo, plumb back waste gate, small standard inter cooler 1310kg)
*fully compliant genuine road car*

ND4SPD (Cosmo 13B, full bridge port, T51 type turbo charger, large front mounted inter cooler, gutted exhaust, open waste gate pipe 1250kg)
*quasi race car!*

I did some very interesting comparisons to ND4SPD (Mazda Capella I tuned with RRWEP110 WI) V's RICESP via the immense analysis power of the VBOX

I'll list up some comparison results: About the total FALLACY of " typical dyno sheets"! v's real world power and times taken for vehicles to actually do "work" with known levels of weight/mass!!!

This car makes on a dynohomodynamics ~390rwkw on 19psi boost (full bridge port & T51 turbo 1250kg as run at race track) where we got these recordings. You will see RICESP at 1310kg run weight is just as powerful (real rwkw! power as measured by me via VBOX!) and its just as fast in peak power band too (what really matters at the end of the day rather than poofter dyno sheet comparisons)

This report is of ND4SPD in its peak power band (6000rpm to 8200rpm) = 110kph to 150kph in 3rd gear on 19psi boost (VBOX measure = ~310rwkw owner has sheets of 380 to 390rwkw on homo dynamics guess machine)
ND4SPD = 110kmh to 150kmh = 2.07 seconds


This report shows RICESP and the first one is a FC RX7 fitted with a bridge port 13B running 15psi boost and a GT35 turbo lol (you can see I am twice as fast as it lol 4.43 seconds V's 2.06 seconds!) This car apparently makes 270rwkw dynohomodynaimcs @ 16psi boost LOL! You can see these dyno figures are not worth pissing on in the REAL WORLD! and are vastly overstated from what the cars actually makes when you apply real physics to them!!!


And the other result table is at full boost when I tuned it (ND4SPD) on road just before setting national dyno record http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm < *read customer testimonial* (which to this day still stands!) for the only ever 13B rotary to lay down 3 back to back power runs of this level and still be able to drive home on pump petrol
Boost, EGT, RPM, AFR sensors fitted in this tuning session.
RICESP = 110kmh to 150kmh = 2.06 seconds


My RX7 is pretty quick I think you will all agree and this is still not sharing the current state of high power tune *I'll save that for another day*

[My5ABaby]

Good info. Shrinking the pics would help a bit though.

[NoDOHC]

Have you compared this exhaust system to alternatives that are available on the market (either US or Australian)?

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

Have you compared this exhaust system to alternatives that are available on the market (either US or Australian)?

Nothing US, lots of Australian and most Japanese, when I first started testing SMB stuff I was hooked. (so much so it made me buy my own 3rd gen RX7!, this is serious, I sold all my other projects and my ass to get my SP, just so I could run a SMB exhaust lol), as you know in this industry there is lots of shit talk and claims, and very little of real data or stuff you could be proud of to claim as a race result worth bragging about.

I don't know of anyone else who has properly tested a catalyst system on a rotary and made this level of performance, but that's what this thread can aim towards across a lot of different topics is a place where people can put up their proof that can back up the claims. The quality will be in the posts from all people who want to contribute.

I await to hear form my peers and fellow testing enthusiasts, we might all learn something here

[RICE RACING]

For my Water Injection Advice (as copied the world over but never replicated!) read the following:



VIDEO in action (RRWEP110 Water Injection system) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lizxy3XIY8


Here > (how to do it) http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/...?t=1590&page=6 (post #51 onwards)
History behind the system I pioneered & developed *over the last 15 years*! along with tuning advice (copied by MANY! word for word, product for product!, setting by setting!), again more real proof than anyone else pretending to know about this for rotaries.

What it does > (real records! NOT CLAIMS LIKE OTHERS!) http://www.riceracing.com.au/
http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm
Not one fictional power claim, but real cars, real customers, real records under controlled repeatable conditions, unmatched by anyone (discounting fictional claims and posts!)