fc3s + Renesis = :)

[neit_jnf]

Originally Posted by RETed

It's more due to the higher redline.

-Ted

wrong

the renesis has higher torque and power across the whole rev range than any previous NA rotary

it probably has better low end up to about 4 or 5000rpm than pp motors too.

[sen2two]

Originally Posted by RETed

787?
Are you talking about the LeMans winning vehicle?
What does that have to do with the RX-8 MSP engine?
IIRC, the 787 used a 4-rotor, PP engine.

So, I really don't understand your point.
If you think your MSP engine will outdo anything PP (even the older 13B PP exhaust), then I think you're smoking crack.
Please do your research first - SAE is a good start.
http://www.sae.org/
The advantages of the PP port over a side port is thoroughly documented.

The only benefit the MSP has over a PP is the minimizing of the (port timing) overlap.
Less overlap means for better emissions.

Don't let the 200+ quoted hp ratings fool you.
It's more due to the higher redline.

Keep in mind, at BP motor with the "older" PP exhaust will produce the same if not better numbers than the MSP.


-Ted

your right, you completely misunderstood what i said. the 787 4-rotor was the only rotary engine in that class. and im sure all the other automakers didnt think it stood a chance until is destroyed all the other competitors. so calm down buddy...me no likey crack

and the redlibe has nothing to do with the power output directly. they red line is just where it makes consistent power to. you could rev all day to 15k, but if your not making power there, whats the point?

and yes, a BP or PP will put out higher numbers. but no exstensive porting has been put into the renesis yet. again, give it time. also, how reliable and how streetable is a large BP or PP? or even a small semi-PP? these motors are making in stock form almost what those make. this is my point. stop being negative. no ones trying to argue here.

and i have put a 12a, 13b/gslse, TII,13b NA, and FD front cover on the renesis. all work just fine. only one hole dosnt line up. wich is an easy fix. try it out and you'll see what i mean.

and i already stated that a custom oil pan will be needed given the renesis is longer. read the statement right below what you quoted.

jeeze... maybe i shoud not of posted this here. just trying to put it out there. cause theres so many people asking about this. but no ones done it... why do all the internet guru's nit pick. isnt this why people hate rx7club? and come to places like this

[Max777]

double post

[classicauto]

Originally Posted by sen2two

the reason im not using the renesis front cover is for ignition. im using the FC CAS. makes it easier. and the reni front cover is hidious. but you can use anyone you like from all 13b's or 12a's. they all fit.

Not ALL front covers are simply interchangable. ALL will bolt to the front iron yes, but not all have the same pattern on the oil pan bolts. REW front cover is different from earlier ones. I've yet to inspect a renesis front cover up clsoe for a swap, but from the picture, it looks as if its the same as the REW (oil pan bolt pattern wise) in which case if you pan to use the RENESIS oil pan, you'll have to modify one or the other.

[sen2two]

damn, that was a lot of typing rotary resurection...lol. got time on your hands?

for the most part you made a lot of sence. and i already understood about the front cover/length part. its not a problem. although i MIGHT be the first to put one in a FC. im not the first to put one in something that is not an rx8. i know of one in PR that has done it. a mud buggy did it. the plane from RWS did it. plus i mocked it up. its not a problem.

and i did ask my self why mazda had been replacing them. but i know the answer also. there is 2 oil injectors per rotor. each facing the side at an angle. thus lubricating the cornerseals and side seals. not the apex seal. resulting in loss of compression and variating dyno numbers. they have now added a 3rd oil injector in the center to fix this problem. they were just trying to keep it a secret that they made a design flaw. so when these motors are being replaced. your actually getting an 09 motor with 3 oil injectors. i'll be pre-mixing as i do with all my cars. problem fixed...

and its true about not having much room to port in these. i wish i had a bad iron from a renesis to experiment with. but they are hard to come by at the moment. but i have seen pictures of a bridge port renesis. and a semi-pp renesis. only pics, not running. so i dont know how it turned out.

plus i think the key is to go with the 4-port. its the exact same as the 6-port, but the upper 6th port is just filled in. the castings are the same. they just dont mill out the 6th port or however they create the ports. this leaves room to port. but like i said. i wish i had a spare unusable one to experiment with.

[RotaryProphet]

Well, for what it's worth, I think it's a neat swap, but then, people think I'm nutjob crazy, too.... (ie, installing a Megasquirt standalone on an FC because I didn't want to find all the problems in the hackjob wiring harness on it... it's a matter of selective lazyness).

Has anyone built a turbo renny by just throwing some old 13b turbo rotors & counterweights in? Wouldn't that be easier than sending rotors out to be milled and such, or are the side ports in the ren designed differently enough that it would cause problems with the side/corner seals?

[classicauto]

Originally Posted by RotaryProphet

Has anyone built a turbo renny by just throwing some old 13b turbo rotors & counterweights in? Wouldn't that be easier than sending rotors out to be milled and such, or are the side ports in the ren designed differently enough that it would cause problems with the side/corner seals?

There is an "assist" seal on the RX-8 rotors which is designed to protect the oil control rings from the heat of the exhaust as it wraps around the side of the rotor out the exhaust port......I know there's some people who have boosted the MSP engine in its natural form, but I'm not aware of any cases where they've used the older rotating assembly - and those assist pieces may be some of the reason why not.

[Fidelity101]

if the OMP doesn't line up you can always solve it with premix!

[sen2two]

i havnt heard of anyone using old 13b rotors in a reni. but i know of a few people to put reni rotors in a older 13b.

i think the problem is the side seal placement.the side seals are further outward toward the edge of the rotor. so maybe the reni would eat corner seals. im not really sure. i havnt checked myself. i remember seeing that somewhere. so dont quote me.

[sen2two]

maz777... have you ever owned and daily drove a 400+ WHP rx7? there no daily driver. i have 2 as of right now. just because you can drive them legally on the street. dosnt make them streetable.

RotaryResurrection. you seem to be pretty up to date on the renesis. i see that the front covers are thinner on the reni, but i still dont see the problem with the pulley. when i put the front cover on with the pulley. theres still room. weather i use the RX8 pulley, or a FC pulley. i even put a 1st gen one on there and it was fine. it goes all the way on without touching the front cover...

did you ever see it not fit? or are you going off a thought? i just want to make sure. it has me thinking im doing something wrong here...

[Max777]

Originally Posted by Fidelity101

Well because they are rich and they also have upwards of 6.0lt of displacement that is powered by months of development by highly qualified engineers and only a few years old of a car if that. A modified car is a little different, lacks the smoothness of production.

I understand your point, however, that doesnt mean a modified car can not come damn close...

I remember reading quite a few articles about JDM and Euro car tuning, and how some tuning shops pruduced cars that went fast as balls, but yet still offered factory like comfort, full interior, A/C, and what else.

The RE-Amemiya street FD3S is a good example... it is fully road legal, yet whoops everybody elses ass.

There are companies like EXEDY can make a clutch that will withstand 500hp, yet still feel close to stock, while an ACT unit will feel like hell in comparison.

-Os Giken makes a new puck style LSD that exibits none of the typical rumble, clunking, and noise of lets say, a KAAZ.

My point is, that yes, if you modify a car, you will no doubt make it "less streetable", but with at least some effort, and quality engineered parts, and some smart thinking, you can create a really fast car that will still be "streetable". That is how you build a street car.

If you build a race car however, where you remove all emissions, sound deadening, gut the interior, install a roll cage, really hard suspension, all spherical suspension joints, loud ass exhaust, and a host of other mods that make a car unstreetable, and then bitch that its "unstreetable", then isn't it your own fault? Shouldn't you have thought of that when building the car, right?

[Max777]

just as a follow up on street cars vs. race cars, there's the thread about a red FC being built by a 45 y.o. guy as a "street car". It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.

[WE3RX7]

I'll be interested to see how this turns out, its definitely different and fun to watch.

I tend to agree with Ted (sometimes) about the fancy intake manifold on the reni. Without that and the higher compression, its not going to outperform a good large SP13B engine.



On the other note, I have to strongly disagree with the not-streetable high output daily driver. I could list countless production cars in that category, but I'll stay on point and only discuss RX7s. Its all in the tuning. You can easily have over 400whp and drive it every day, but it takes time and money (as does everything really). Its so common now for guys to install an EMS and get a "rough" or what they consider a "good" tune. I've seen these maps and over half of the options arent even touched. What makes your run of the mill car run so well is its tuning. Engineers spend countless hours going through the numbers and doing the math and making these engines run GREAT. Thats why its so easy when you bolt something on, it mucks it all up - because the original engineers didnt compensate for stupidity.

Either way, horsepower has nothing to do w/ interior either. So you can have a comfortable (as comfortable as a 2 door sports car can be) 400 or more HP car.

Not to mention, look at the PCM flashes the EVOs get these days. Just a PC reflash and they get over 400hp and otherwise its mostly stock!

[vex]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

I'll be interested to see how this turns out, its definitely different and fun to watch.

I tend to agree with Ted (sometimes) about the fancy intake manifold on the reni. Without that and the higher compression, its not going to outperform a good large SP13B engine.



On the other note, I have to strongly disagree with the not-streetable high output daily driver. I could list countless production cars in that category, but I'll stay on point and only discuss RX7s. Its all in the tuning. You can easily have over 400whp and drive it every day, but it takes time and money (as does everything really). Its so common now for guys to install an EMS and get a "rough" or what they consider a "good" tune. I've seen these maps and over half of the options arent even touched. What makes your run of the mill car run so well is its tuning. Engineers spend countless hours going through the numbers and doing the math and making these engines run GREAT. Thats why its so easy when you bolt something on, it mucks it all up - because the original engineers didnt compensate for stupidity.

Either way, horsepower has nothing to do w/ interior either. So you can have a comfortable (as comfortable as a 2 door sports car can be) 400 or more HP car.

Not to mention, look at the PCM flashes the EVOs get these days. Just a PC reflash and they get over 400hp and otherwise its mostly stock!

Speaking of which, I should have you look over the tune on my car when I get the turbo in.

[WE3RX7]

^NP..