Megasquirt Advice and discussion.

[RotaryProphet]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

That I will disagree with. Now, I haven't toyed with the MS software extensively but I will say that there is no way that is as easy to tune as some of the other softwares out there. There are certain functions and "add-ons" if you will to other ECU softwares that make thing SOOOOO much easier. Since I know the MoTeC V3 the best, I'll give a few examples.
Once I have my L table filled out correctly I can hold the engine at a certain cell in the fuel map (that is incorrectly input), press a single button on the keyboard, and the ECU will automatically change the input number to what is calculated to give the correct L. By doing this at a few different sites, you can manually interpolate the numbers and VERY quickly come up with a base map. Make a few pulls and make a few adjustments from there. VERY easy.
The MoTeC can also correctly and internally calculate the difference in needed pw to accomodate for different sized prim/sec injectors. Once you setup a few parameters including the 3d map for sec fueling, there is no other adjustments to make for the sec injectors, it's all internal. On the datalogs you can watch the primary injectors duty cycle increase to a certain point, start to fall off as the secondaries come on, they meet at a certain pw determined by sizing differences and then they both head off togeter. by inputting a percent number you can enrich or enlean the map AT THE POINT when the secondaries come on and control how much, how little, and for how long it is either enriched or enleaned.
Injector timing
The PID functions for idle/boost control are VERY easy to work with and HIGHLY adjustable. Much more than the Haltechs/microtechs
OMP control or DBW is pretty damn easy to accomplish
Troubleshooting is ridiculously easy with some of the screen displays that are available.
And one of my favorites is the datalogging. The datalogs that I have seen from the Haltech are all in a basic MS Excel format. Not very easy on the eyes and if you want to see it in graph form, it takes a few minutes to "arrange it" With the V3 and the i2, after a dyno run I press CTRL+F8 to get the logged data and give it a name, and press enter. Alt+Tab moves me to the i2 software. CTRL+a closes the previous log, CRTL+o opens all the log files, Home then enter brings up the latest log. I have up to a meg, there is an internal option that allows up to 3 megs of logging. The Pro Analysis option is just silly. Graph overlays, advanced math functions, syncronized video..... just crazy stuff that allows much easier tuning of the entire vehicle.
So I don't agree with the statement that the MS, Haltech, or microtech are about as easy to tune as the others, or as user friendly. Can they do it? Well, they can do most things, but in the end, in Perfect Competition - which this almost is, at the end of the day they're all ECU's, you get what you pay for. MoTeC is >$4k for a box, and MS is 10% of that. They both can run a basic engine almost as well as another when tuned by a competent person. However, you get what you pay for in competition so I don't agree with saying that all ecu's are equal.

I'll agree, there's some stuff there that the MS doesn't do; OMP control, for instance. I'm not saying it's impossible with the MS (one of the bonuses of a DIY setup is you can pretty much -do- anything, with enough effort). But some of the other stuff is pretty easy on the MS. The base table it generates, given your RPM limits, expected torque, number of cylinders/injectors, peak HP and TQ RPM points, max boost, etc... it's always been a good enough map for me to drive on.

From there, to get a pretty good road tune, just punch in your desired AF ratios (assuming you have a wideband hooked up), turn on auto-tune, and drive around; it'll read the AF from the wideband, look up the desired AF ratio, and recalculate the VE table based on it.

The MS, at least the Extra code also does secondary injector staging properly, bringing the secondary injectors online at a given % pulsewidth on the primaries.

Also, the logging works very similarly to the haltech, exporting in an excel spreadsheet; but there are seperate programs designed just to open the MS log files and give you a much nicer interface; personally, I dump all of mine into a database so I can run a series of scripts across the data looking for specific triggers.

In reality, just use what you like; if you can afford it, and you're happy with it, go for it. As nice as it is, I can't justify spending that kind of money on an EMS to accomplish what I can do almost as easily for much much less. Actually, I sell a megasquirt installed and fully tuned for less than the cost of the MoTeC box. And for curious parties, yes, I warranty and service it.

For those same people who couldn't install an EMS to begin with, having one professional installed and tuned for ~$2000-$2600 is very attractive; and those are the same people who don't need to learn the software, because they never intend to touch it.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by RotaryProphet

I'll agree, there's some stuff there that the MS doesn't do; OMP control, for instance. I'm not saying it's impossible with the MS (one of the bonuses of a DIY setup is you can pretty much -do- anything, with enough effort). But some of the other stuff is pretty easy on the MS. The base table it generates, given your RPM limits, expected torque, number of cylinders/injectors, peak HP and TQ RPM points, max boost, etc... it's always been a good enough map for me to drive on.

From there, to get a pretty good road tune, just punch in your desired AF ratios (assuming you have a wideband hooked up), turn on auto-tune, and drive around; it'll read the AF from the wideband, look up the desired AF ratio, and recalculate the VE table based on it.

The MS, at least the Extra code also does secondary injector staging properly, bringing the secondary injectors online at a given % pulsewidth on the primaries.

Also, the logging works very similarly to the haltech, exporting in an excel spreadsheet; but there are seperate programs designed just to open the MS log files and give you a much nicer interface; personally, I dump all of mine into a database so I can run a series of scripts across the data looking for specific triggers.

In reality, just use what you like; if you can afford it, and you're happy with it, go for it. As nice as it is, I can't justify spending that kind of money on an EMS to accomplish what I can do almost as easily for much much less. Actually, I sell a megasquirt installed and fully tuned for less than the cost of the MoTeC box. And for curious parties, yes, I warranty and service it.

For those same people who couldn't install an EMS to begin with, having one professional installed and tuned for ~$2000-$2600 is very attractive; and those are the same people who don't need to learn the software, because they never intend to touch it.

Ya know, that's a VERY good point to make. If somone just wants to pick a car up completed and never touch the software, than by all means, it really doesn't matter what the hell is controling it as long as it works. For those people that are planning on playing around with the software it makes total sense to get a software package that you yourself can easily use. The V3 is like second nature to me now. The only problem I have is finding certain things because there is just so damn much of it. IE-running through the logs we found out that she went a little rich when the secondaries came on. Great, lets lean out the 2ndary enrichment. Great, where the hell is it?

I have no doubt that I would be able to build and install an MS. However, that's just insert pin A into slot B and add a dab of solder and then build a wiring harness. I have no problems with that. The be concern for me personally, would be any type of code writing. That I would fail at miserably.

To each thier own though. Like you said though, for the cost of the unit installed and tuned, as long as it's completed and the owner never needs to touch the software, who cares what's under there.