Thinking of water injection..any recommendations?

[FC3S Murray]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

So you're saying that right now, with my setup and current map, & I'm making 405rwhp on stock twins, that if I added WI I would GAIN power? Exactely how does injecting water, which is know to put out flames, gain power? Is it just through a cooler charge? If that is the case, than I doubt myself, or anyone with a very effiecent intercooler would see any real performance gains as my AIT's are near ambient anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is the performance gain only though cooler AIT's? I can see strait meth and bumping the timing gaining a ton of power, but the way you're touting water injection, doesn't seem logical.

Brian I think with a 30meth/70water mix(50/50 commonly called) you would see a performance gain and a better safety margin without re-tuning your map. Of course you could fine adjust your tune to accomadate the meth and get even more power BUT system failure could lead to motor failure.

I do think that if the owner is running an efficient IC and has very well routed heat scavanging system/under hood temp control, then WI might not seem like a very big factor in gaining HP. I do think however if the owner was to road race /circuit, that the WI with water only would just be a smart choice because you know that your AIT's are gonna rise..maybe not to extreme temps if your ducting is functional but those AIT's will be hotter then a motor with WI would record.

[RICE RACING]

I don't want to come across the wrong way with this so I will try to explain as neutrally as I can.

If you run a blend of meth to water at 50/50 on top of your normal tune given the right ratio (all cars have a sweet spot) for turn on point and amount to inject. When you inject pre turbo you will realize a net performance gain, This is brought about by a charge increase into the engine (more air and more fuel over and above anything that the water may displace). People not associated with me in any way have tested this and listed very significant acceleration gains in real world tests. A rough rule of thumb is you want around 100cc per 150bhp from my experience (though note each car set up is different in what it will respond too for best power, but rest assured it will increase the power and not decrease it if you follow the above recommendations)

The same qty and trigger points after the turbo yield no gains at all, but detonation is eliminated with either system.

Injection of a 100% water mixture on top of your existing safe tune up will cost you power but increase reliability and durability just to be clear.

[knonfs]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

I don't want to come across the wrong way with this so I will try to explain as neutrally as I can.

If you run a blend of meth to water at 50/50 on top of your normal tune given the right ratio (all cars have a sweet spot) for turn on point and amount to inject. When you inject pre turbo you will realize a net performance gain, This is brought about by a charge increase into the engine (more air and more fuel over and above anything that the water may displace). People not associated with me in any way have tested this and listed very significant acceleration gains in real world tests. A rough rule of thumb is you want around 100cc per 150bhp from my experience (though note each car set up is different in what it will respond too for best power, but rest assured it will increase the power and not decrease it if you follow the above recommendations)

The same qty and trigger points after the turbo yield no gains at all, but detonation is eliminated with either system.

Injection of a 100% water mixture on top of your existing safe tune up will cost you power but increase reliability and durability just to be clear.

Can I run a mix blend with your kit? Or the do I have to modify anything (lines, filter, etc)?

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by knonfs

Can I run a mix blend with your kit? Or the do I have to modify anything (lines, filter, etc)?

I have been trialing exactly 50/50 Methanol to Water (by mass) for a while now and there is no problem so far, but I like to run tests for at least a year before I personally tell people its fine. (I do have customers who have run this way and reported no problems with any parts).

I have components in bottles of various solutions sitting for months/years at a time, I only started this one a month back... so far I can tell no ill effect on the above mixture.

[knonfs]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

I have been trialing exactly 50/50 Methanol to Water (by mass) for a while now and there is no problem so far, but I like to run tests for at least a year before I personally tell people its fine. (I do have customers who have run this way and reported no problems with any parts).

I have components in bottles of various solutions sitting for months/years at a time, I only started this one a month back... so far I can tell no ill effect on the above mixture.

Sounds good, keeps us posted. Your kit has been sitting on the car for like 2 years now, and the car probably won't be ready before summer

[TitaniumTT]

Might help if I post up the datalog......

[RICE RACING]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and thoughts

[TitaniumTT]

Well, this is the whole problem with MAP based systems. If you increase the mass of air moving into the engine without retuning for it, engine go boom. The extreme example is the stock twins @ 15psi vs a GT60 @ 15psi. 15psi is not 15psi and you need to be careful especially with a MAP based system. It the WI pre-turbo is really changing the mass of air entering the engine by way of cooler charge temps, then as you state here,

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

This is brought about by a charge increase into the engine (more air and more fuel over and above anything that the water may displace).

than I wouldn't think that slapping a WI system on is going to be safe. However, if boost levels are kept constant, the mass isn't going to change dramatically, the water is displacing some of the mass, and the cooler charge temps are being properly compensated, the difference is minimal. I just feel that to say zero re-tune is needed is a little sketchy is all.