Defined Autoworks 523whp 35r!!

[FDwarrior]

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

[David Jerome]

Originally Posted by FDwarrior

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by FDwarrior

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

First, I'm curious to what you're referring to when you say clearly visible in one engine bay pic?

For me, I usually see it as the other way around. My favorite example is the guy that made 437rwhp on a dyno-jet with a GT42R and 21psi....... think about that for a minute. I feel that there is ALOT to be made.... or in most cases lost, because people don't know what they're doing when it comes to tuning. I believe this is where alot of people get stuck with the "normal." Most REW twins seem to land between 350-360 and occasionally with a touch more boost, a little more timing, a little less fuel will get upwards of 380. In my case, there is all that plus the most effiecient engine I could build, big exhaust, short intercooler piping, small core.... it netted me 405rwhp on dyno-jet. Take the myriads of GT35R guys out there running very little timing, 10.5:1 afr's making around 4-425. Lean it out a lot, like a full point, add some timing, reduce the EMAP, and see what happens. An extra 25% hp I don't think is outrageous.

This is also a 1.0 A/R snail correct?

Originally Posted by David Jerome

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.

So what's you're plan when I get into town David? Hit up a dyno-pak and put that correction factor in to see where we land? I wouldn't be opposed to going to a drag strip either. I warn you though, I've never once drag raced so be prepared to laugh your ass off You sound like you have a cery good grasp of the different dyno's and how they measure everything, we'll have to chat about this in great depth. I just accepted that different tools measure things differently and left it at that as there was so much contradicting info on the net when I was looking into it years ago.

[David Jerome]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

So what's you're plan when I get into town David? Hit up a dyno-pak and put that correction factor in to see where we land? I wouldn't be opposed to going to a drag strip either. I warn you though, I've never once drag raced so be prepared to laugh your ass off You sound like you have a cery good grasp of the different dyno's and how they measure everything, we'll have to chat about this in great depth. I just accepted that different tools measure things differently and left it at that as there was so much contradicting info on the net when I was looking into it years ago.

I figured we would go to the shop where I dynoed my fd. It is a dyno dynamics dyno. He can give us the "true" numbers then the adjusted numbers "True Xs 1.16"(16% correction factor). Im no expert on dynos, not by any stretch or do I study them. However, it is common knowledge that Dyno Jet dynos typically show 15% higher numbers than a Dyno Dynamics dyno with the original software. After a quick search (google), I found a post saying that the shop the OPs car dynoed at reads roughly 4% higher than a Dyno Jet(this coming from the shop itself). So that is a 19% correction over what a Dyno Dynamics(heartbreaker dyno) reads.

I hope when you meet me you arent expecting some genius automotive mind or something. Im very comfortable in what I do and focus on my business and keeping customers happy. Im not out R&Ding and trying to push the envelope. I know a decent bit about fds and how to keep them on the road, that is what I do. I dont pretend to have knowlege of something when I do not. My knowledge and info comes from real world experiences and not a class room and definitely not theories.

I know you probably wonder why I would make the comments I did in this thread and in yours. To me the numbers dont add up, not at the boost levels that are claimed anyways. There is one other person that has claimed 400rwhp on stock fd twins(truly stock twins) and he is the record holder for fastest times ever. 10.9 at 126 and that was with 402rwhp at roughly 19psi.

The drag strip is most accurate indicator of HP. We can race dynos all day, but the drag strip tells the story. If you know the weight of the car and the MPH it traps the power becomes pretty clear. Especially on a quick spooling setup with a broader power band, they will often trap slightly higher than another car with same peak power but laggier response.

Im not saying your car doesnt make 400rwhp or the OPs car doesnt make 5xx at 15lbs, I just want to see what happens when the cars go to a different dyno or run at the drag strip. If Im wrong I will be the first to admit it and gladly post it here for all to see or wherever else.

I dont make my living doing this work anymore, I do still make money but I keep doing it because I love FDs. I just try to keep as many FDs on the road as possible.

[GtoRx7]

Logan forgot to log out on my computer, FDwarrior.

[FDwarrior]

Originally Posted by GtoRx7

Logan forgot to log out on my computer, FDwarrior.

I made my previous post under logan's log in, did not see my computer saved his info for automatic log in.

[RICE RACING]

A little off topic but I'm sure you will love this...........

So who has watched Hot Version Vol 107 yet? *you can youtube it*

Very interesting seeing all the tested weights, boost pressures, top speeds on back straight! and claimed power levels :shock:

Excellent spread of cars and configurations :wink: Nice typo of the RE Amemiya car running a 4.3 rear diff when it has a 4.7 in it lol, but otherwise nice production.

RE Amemiya car
193.064kmh
twins @ 1.00kg/cm 402ps
1145kg

Famspeed
189kmh
twins @ 1.3kg/cm 499ps *where did the 100ps go?*
1153kg

R-Magic drift car
200.93kmh
T04Z 1.4kg/cm 580ps (sequential dog box)
1126kg

Domar spec drift
190.375kmh
T88 1.35kg/cm 570ps (sequential dog box)
1133kg

To pick the most exciting cars, interesting to see dyno dreams don't match with reality, very cool to watch the 5 lap race and see the 400ps twins car keep right up to the 580ps car! (within 1 car length along whole back straight up to 200kmh lol)........ guess who won?

Here is a list of very well known cars and their top speeds on the back straight at this track...
2007 17th Annual Revspeed Super Battle at Tsukuba Circuit

***NOTE*** ITS FUNNY HOW ~600PS Nissan's (M speed, Best Motorsports, Garage Ito) that weigh much more are 20+kmh faster lol (and that is with larger frontal area, higher drag too)!!!! I do have ALL of these cars on video along with detailed specs of the all as well

* 1st place- #13 M-Speed R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 55.23sec, Top Speed: 227.282 km/h)
* 2nd place- #1 Garage HRS SUN Auto Cyber Evo CT9A Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 55.864sec, Top Speed: 220.678 km/h)
* 3rd place- #22 Pro-Staff R Magic FD3S Mazda RX-7 (Best Lap: 55.947sec, Top Speed: 217.742 km/h)
* 4th place- #12 Nagisa Auto R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 56.510sec, Top Speed: 227.082 km/h)
* 5th place- #16 Kurumakobou Decide R33 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 56.630sec, Top Speed: 233.615 km/h)
* 6th place- #14 Garage Kagotani R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 56.833sec, Top Speed: 227.416 km/h)
* 7th place- #31 Autobacs ASM Honda S2000 (Best Lap: 57.398sec, Top Speed: 188.055 km/h)
* 8th place- #18 Best Motor Sports R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 57.422sec, Top Speed: 220.994 km/h)
* 9th place- #15 Hosaka Tuning Factory R33 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 57.504sec, Top Speed: 224.346 km/h)
* 10th place- #17 Keiyo Jiko R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 57.658sec, Top Speed: N/A)
* 11th place- #3 Jun Automechanics CT9A Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 57.824sec, Top Speed: 211.640 km/h)
* 12th place- #19 Auto Gallery Yokohama R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 58.081sec, Top Speed: 223.8
* 13th place- #21 Garage Ito R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R (Best Lap: 58.282sec, Top Speed: 216.650 km/h)
* 14th place- #5 Varis CP9N Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 58.456sec, Top Speed: 211.102 km/h)
* 15th place- #4 Stillway CT9A Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (Best Lap: 58.484sec, Top Speed: 204.468 km/h)

[FDwarrior]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

First, I'm curious to what you're referring to when you say clearly visible in one engine bay pic?

For me, I usually see it as the other way around. My favorite example is the guy that made 437rwhp on a dyno-jet with a GT42R and 21psi....... think about that for a minute. I feel that there is ALOT to be made.... or in most cases lost, because people don't know what they're doing when it comes to tuning. I believe this is where alot of people get stuck with the "normal." Most REW twins seem to land between 350-360 and occasionally with a touch more boost, a little more timing, a little less fuel will get upwards of 380. In my case, there is all that plus the most effiecient engine I could build, big exhaust, short intercooler piping, small core.... it netted me 405rwhp on dyno-jet. Take the myriads of GT35R guys out there running very little timing, 10.5:1 afr's making around 4-425. Lean it out a lot, like a full point, add some timing, reduce the EMAP, and see what happens. An extra 25% hp I don't think is outrageous.

This is also a 1.0 A/R snail correct?



So what's you're plan when I get into town David? Hit up a dyno-pak and put that correction factor in to see where we land? I wouldn't be opposed to going to a drag strip either. I warn you though, I've never once drag raced so be prepared to laugh your ass off You sound like you have a cery good grasp of the different dyno's and how they measure everything, we'll have to chat about this in great depth. I just accepted that different tools measure things differently and left it at that as there was so much contradicting info on the net when I was looking into it years ago.

There is something done to my engine that most people would never think to do, and is clearly visible in the pics. There are many things done to my engine that most people would never think of, none of which are foreign power adders just things in the build. I am also using a 1.00a/r turbine housing.

Once again I can't wait to go to the drag strip. I would also not require anyone to pay for my runs just to prove the many years of R&D behind the defined engines.

This has also never been done before by a long, long, long shot. Even more power and torque on page 2.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ad.php?t=12767

This is the shop owners personal car, much of this knowledge went into building the engine in my car. This engine makes about basically the same power as full blown p-ports, from semi-p ports. When you build the most efficient n/a engine that knowledge transfers to building the most efficient turbo engine, thus my power numbers on super low boost. The numbers don't add up on this 20b to many of the big hitters, but what does that mean?

I also don't know how my car in particular will get an accurate power reading from the drag strip. There is no arguing physics, but we are talking about a perfect world scenario. A 400whp FD will not spin 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear all the way through(I had one before this car). My car can spin tire all the way through 3rd, because it weighs 2520lbs. I know some wheel spin off the line will not affect the mph, Im talking about spinning half way down the track and letting out of it. Im still going to go to the track any ways, hopefully with some 10.5 inch drag slicks.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by FDwarrior

it weighs 2520lbs..

so 1143kg. My SP (though a road going set up) is 1216kg with about 30lt or 20kg of fuel on board.

Keep in touch will be great to keep up with how this exceptional car goes

Many years ago I sold as a group buy *special 13B* programming over on the gay forum for a Race Logic Traction Control (Group buy). I run this in my own car and it would be wheel spin hell without it (1st and 2nd just torches the 255 semi slicks I run on the back and that is with top shelf Ohlins suspension. I have proven this system over many years (traction control) and allot of my customers around the world run my programming in their TC units on 4 injector twin rotor cars.

It will make your thing sound like an old F1 car! and the drive out of corners is amazing! I leave my car now on 1.5bar boost and let the TC simply control the power rather than using staged boost control which is far slower and much less precise

Highly recommend it especially for a track type person like yourself

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by David Jerome

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.

Look mate, MOST of the numbers dyno's punch out are total bullshit!

I say again, you apply physics as applied to hundreds! of legit cars as listed on my page and you will see (as you are saying) that by some way that the estimated BHP *engine power* NEVER corresponds to the mph it achieves over the last 66ft of a 1320ft acceleration test

Test a car in std temp, pressure day and show me the "mph" and I will believe that far more than most other forms of evidence. This is why I have high precision corner scales, and a $30k worth of Race Logic VBOX testing equipment. Also good to apply other very basic testing procedures such as in gear 90-140kmh test (3rd) and other more std tests which eliminate shifting excuses and launching etc etc like 100 to 200kmh or your backwards english imperial 60-130mph equivalents .......

It really does separate the bullshit for the facts!

http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-ii...ing-tuning.htm

On the DynoDynamics (in NORMAL MODE! not skewed like you cunts do to match optimistic dynojet guesses!) I tested dozens of cars and they put out stupidly high figures! then test the REAL power as delivered to the real wheels on my VBOX and self made forumla and its always around 13% LOWER!!!!! apply my well researched guess to estimate the legitimate engine power and put it into many proven forumlas (that have been used to check hundreds of legitimate supercars!) and by some lucky hand of god! the NUMBERS ADD UP!.

I have published a ton of this information of proper testing here> for anyone bored to read it > http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...=VBOX#p2345194 Mountains of cars from ALL genera, see how you measure up and what "rear wheel HP dreams you are putting your faith in!"

p.s. (ref VBOX tests of American Ferrari F40 I got done and acquired actual corner weight check after test) There are some great comparisons there from stuff I know intimately well (Ferrari F40 for example and my own car) if you get yourself a simple VBOX consumer range item, you can quickly and easily do any in gear acceleration tests to compare yourself to very well known factory cars. One you will see on that page is a basic 60mph to 85mph (5000rpm to 7000rpm) power band check *ironically identical for both cars gearing wise so its a great comparo. American Ferrari F40 = 2.10 seconds V's mine on 18psi at 2.19 seconds (and my car being 100kg lighter in this test) you do the math lol at guessing the power of each car I currently run 1.52kg/cm or around 21.6psi boost pressure, that should be enough to not only beat the American F40 I have first hand data on but also its faster Euro cousin that is closer in weight to my Mighty RICESP Mazda RX7 and it WILL trap near 130mph in an old school 1320ft test......... if its got the power to beat all these other incremental measures. My heap of shit is 1320kg when tested and it "only" has just under 500 genuine engine donkeys under the hood! Some other peoples cars with OVER 600bhp and weight near 1100kg should do almost 140mph by comparison ............... but they NEVER do and always have an excuse to follow as well ironically LOL.

[FDwarrior]

Don't worry folks, Im going to go to the track when it's not winter. Also for "the thing" follow the intercooler pipes, and look at what parts should not go together. You should be stopping at the upper intake manifold. It's the small details on every part that count. Also it's all fine on my dyno results not being legit because I guess now no dyno is legit. I do however question why some people can shit out power numbers, like some of the three rotors on the other site and no one thinks twice. I do believe this thread has accomplished it's goal, advertisement. Any one getting a car built by a shop want's to see dyno results, any one who tries to argue any different is full of it. The only thing most of the power guys care about is a dyno chart. Slowmotion drag races as well so I could grab some of there slips, and compare them to that car's dyno number. I could show how accurate the dyno is by using Slowmotion's mph in the 1/4 to that same car's dyno chart. Im also going to use this thread as a build thread, so more to come in the future. This car ultimately is a road course car, so pics will be updated as events happen.

[RICE RACING]

Don't take my posts the worng way, I'm a big fan of you boys and hope you keep on it

Given you life in a hic town and have heaps of testing opportunities I'd love it if you asked for Christmas to get a Race Logic Performance box, I'd love to share some actual figures with some capable rotary runners around the world

I'll post up some links to very interesting cars that have been tested if you care to see them as well so you have some reference points of what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDOqS...layer_embedded < what 129mph in real street test looks like 1.5bar. VBOX proven!

With your level of power it, Should easily do over 200mph too lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8yZ0...eature=related *we want VBOX proof hahaha* I have of mine but I'm not about to post it on the internet like these idiots

[FDwarrior]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Don't take my posts the worng way, I'm a big fan of you boys and hope you keep on it

Given you life in a hic town and have heaps of testing opportunities I'd love it if you asked for Christmas to get a Race Logic Performance box, I'd love to share some actual figures with some capable rotary runners around the world

I'll post up some links to very interesting cars that have been tested if you care to see them as well so you have some reference points of what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDOqS...layer_embedded < what 129mph in real street test looks like 1.5bar. VBOX proven!

With your level of power it, Should easily do over 200mph too lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8yZ0...eature=related *we want VBOX proof hahaha* I have of mine but I'm not about to post it on the internet like these idiots

I was actually not responding to your post, you have been cool in this whole thread. I know you are not here trying stir things up. I would love to get a race logic, it would come in handy when the car starts circuit racing this year. My next hill is down force and more chassis development. Until I can create a chassis that will use the power, I will probably be running around 400hp. I have not done much research but can you put yaw and pitch sensors to the race logic?

[FDwarrior]

Originally Posted by FDwarrior

I was actually not responding to your post, you have been cool in this whole thread. I know you are not here trying stir things up. I would love to get a race logic, it would come in handy when the car starts circuit racing this year. My next hill is down force and more chassis development. Until I can create a chassis that will use the power, I will probably be running around 400hp. I have not done much research but can you put yaw and pitch sensors to the race logic?

Answered my own question. Looks like the vbox will give me all of the info I need. I figured that you would need external sensors going to a computer to display x/y line graphs of the cornering g's. Knowing the cornering g's is good, but knowing at what point they happen, when, and how long is even better.