Drifting, hellaflush, slammed, tire stretch blog/bash thread.

[sofaking]

1) I didn't say that running stretched tires makes you faster. I said, "Stretching the tire gives it predictable characteristics on the track, removing the ability for the sidewall to roll negates having to correct for it." Learn to read. Arguing with logical fallacies and misunderstood points doesn't make you right (I guess technically in your mind it does). I made a statement and I've put it to the test in the real world and it does exactly what I said it does.

2) @RETed Do you know anything about drifting? I liken it to rally from the standpoint of damage to the car. If you can afford to re-paint your car every event that's awesome. Most of the pros can't justify that. Not to mention that there are people that give anything a bad name and tend to try and look shitty because it's inevitable that they're going to destroy something nice. Drifting is a sport of style, looks fall into the style category.

3) @RotorDad There have got to be a bunch of morons in VA. Out here in Colorado we understand you can't warranty a tire for camber wear and drifting on them. Like responsible people we deal with the consequences of our actions and buy new tires when we need them. It's sad that they've resorted to denying warranties to stretched tire owners. No doubt related to dumbasses doing dumbass things. I'd be curious if there is a real reason behind this or if its just some old dude arguing how they never did it back in the day and technology hasn't changed and nothing has been made better since 1902. (I love these arguments, they remind me of the one I'm having right now.)

4) Sounds like you would get a ticket for following too closely. If you're driving at the legally suggested distance you can react to potholes before you hit them.

5) I'm not asking you to "admit you're wrong" I don't really care. I just decided to hop on here and argue because I'm bored and you're idiots. Find something where someone didn't hit a curb or a pothole and had problems with their stretched tires. I haven't seen any information to back up that it doesn't work well. I'm capable of saying that I'm sure having the sidewall vertical probably offers better performance (in a grip racing situation). But since you're all arguing about how you have street cars and drive them on the street, you're not pushing the tires to the limit anyway.

On another note. No, I have never been on Boostimports. Also, is it just me or does anyone else see the irony of both of your screen names?
reted, retard
rotordad, retarded
I'm just glad to be able to argue with people at length about things they have no experience with. I look forward to the incredibly insightful replies that I'm sure are coming.

[classicauto]

Originally Posted by sofaking

1) I didn't say that running stretched tires makes you faster. I said, "Stretching the tire gives it predictable characteristics on the track, removing the ability for the sidewall to roll negates having to correct for it." Learn to read. Arguing with logical fallacies and misunderstood points doesn't make you right (I guess technically in your mind it does). I made a statement and I've put it to the test in the real world and it does exactly what I said it does.

Sidewall roll is not the largest variable in your suspension setup unless you're running 14-15" wheels with really tall sidewalls. A ~40ish series sidewall on a low profile tire for a 17-18" wheel doesn't have much flex. The difference between a fitted low profile tire and a stretched low profile tire is extremely low with regards to tire flex. The predictability you're experiencing is due to the smalelr contact patch being easier to control then the more grippy, wider, proper fitting tire.

Saying something works on the track doesn't make it right. I'm sure you've seen the mythbusters where they cut a car into bits, including the roof, duct tape it together and thrash the shit out of it.

Given the fact that you can duct tape a car together and have it survive a beating on a track (ie. you can stretch your tires and have them not pop off or fail) doesn't make it correct or the right way of doing things.........nor the best way.

3) @RotorDad There have got to be a bunch of morons in VA. Out here in Colorado we understand you can't warranty a tire for camber wear and drifting on them. Like responsible people we deal with the consequences of our actions and buy new tires when we need them. It's sad that they've resorted to denying warranties to stretched tire owners. No doubt related to dumbasses doing dumbass things. I'd be curious if there is a real reason behind this or if its just some old dude arguing how they never did it back in the day and technology hasn't changed and nothing has been made better since 1902. (I love these arguments, they remind me of the one I'm having right now.)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....9&AID=10398365

Tire recommendations. Rim widths vs. tire widths. Sure, a shop can stretch tires on for you. Sure they can tell you THEY (the shop) might warranty the tire itself from falling off the rim or would help you if there was a problem - but THE TIRE MANUFACTURER doesn't warranty any tire installed on the wrong size rim. Phone any tire maker you wish and ask them, its just not true. The shop might be willing to help you if there's an issue but don't confuse that with the tire company actually warrantying the tire, or reccommending its installed on inappropriate sized wheels.

4) Sounds like you would get a ticket for following too closely. If you're driving at the legally suggested distance you can react to potholes before you hit them.

You know, there's no reason to be an idiot we can all have big boy conversations. We are all human. I'm sure you've hit pot holes. I've hit pot holes. Whoop dee doo. Is a pot hole going to just destroy a rim outright? Depends. It could happen with or without stretched tires. However, you must be able to admit that given physics and a tire's job, if there is rim epxosed -such as with a stretched tire- that there is a higher likelyhood damage can happen due to the rim being more vulnerable then when it is covered by a tire completely........yes?

Thank you for gracing our forum.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

1) I didn't say that running stretched tires makes you faster. I said, "Stretching the tire gives it predictable characteristics on the track, removing the ability for the sidewall to roll negates having to correct for it." Learn to read. Arguing with logical fallacies and misunderstood points doesn't make you right (I guess technically in your mind it does). I made a statement and I've put it to the test in the real world and it does exactly what I said it does.

And completely negates the speed rating of the tire. Sidewall deformation caused by stretching not only results in premature tire failure, but also eliminates the speed rating as viable metric to ensure safety of the car.

For yours and other consideration I quote the following from individuals in the business of mounting as well as designing the tires:

If you perform this miscarriage, then you (not the customer) will be liable if the tire fails unexpectedly because of incorrect fitment. You have enabled the customer to drive on a tire/wheel combination that is not sanctioned or recommended by competent authorities in the tire industry. It is just the same as installing a tire with less load capacity than the OE fitment. DO NOT DO IT! Just ask any expert witness in a suit involving tire failure if you doubt my words.

If you want to loose your business for a few dollars of profit, then it sounds like a great idea. All of the tires I have seen that have been stretched have a lower load rating than the car requires also. We used to send them to another business in town that was doing stretching but he had to close after a lawsuit cleaned him out.

Without getting too technical, when a wider or narrower tire is placed on a width wheel that is out of spec. for the size, a whole change of dynamics will occur to the tire. Number one is safety. Safety not only to the operator, but to the installer. Bead rupture is a possibility as the tire tries to conform itself unrightly to a too narrow or too wide wheel. Safety to the customer because the tires rated performance is greatly reduced, ie; speed rating, air pressure, load carrying capacity, wear characteristics, traction, bead leaking, just to mention a few.

I've done a couple AFTER explaining to the customer who was well aware of the dangers of such a setup. These guys are practicing on a drift circuit and says the Hipari setup makes drift sessions easier because of less traction and smaller contact patch. We don't mount the wheels on the car however. I've been to the drift session unknowing to the guys and saw them mounting their wheels at the circuit so I'm pretty comfortable knowing these guys are responsible and do not run these wheels on public roads.

I can go on if you'd like. But you get the issue. Stretching the tire really has no benefit beyond aesthetics (but last I checked cars were meant to be driven).

2) @RETed Do you know anything about drifting? I liken it to rally from the standpoint of damage to the car. If you can afford to re-paint your car every event that's awesome. Most of the pros can't justify that. Not to mention that there are people that give anything a bad name and tend to try and look shitty because it's inevitable that they're going to destroy something nice. Drifting is a sport of style, looks fall into the style category.

You do realize he's friends with some people that participate in such events and perform well without having to deform the tires until they are completely out of spec, ya?

3) @RotorDad There have got to be a bunch of morons in VA. Out here in Colorado we understand you can't warranty a tire for camber wear and drifting on them. Like responsible people we deal with the consequences of our actions and buy new tires when we need them. It's sad that they've resorted to denying warranties to stretched tire owners. No doubt related to dumbasses doing dumbass things. I'd be curious if there is a real reason behind this or if its just some old dude arguing how they never did it back in the day and technology hasn't changed and nothing has been made better since 1902. (I love these arguments, they remind me of the one I'm having right now.)

On the contrary, see the above quotes from installers and individuals in the business. Even if they tell you it's bad and you insist upon it being mounted, and a family dies because you used your predictable vehicle behavior to slam into them, who's going to take the heat for all those who died? You? Or are you going to let the buck go to the individual that broke the law in mounting your tire?

4) Sounds like you would get a ticket for following too closely. If you're driving at the legally suggested distance you can react to potholes before you hit them.

Sounds like you have pristine roads and conditions to avoid all pot holes ever made.

5) I'm not asking you to "admit you're wrong" I don't really care. I just decided to hop on here and argue because I'm bored and you're idiots. Find something where someone didn't hit a curb or a pothole and had problems with their stretched tires. I haven't seen any information to back up that it doesn't work well. I'm capable of saying that I'm sure having the sidewall vertical probably offers better performance (in a grip racing situation). But since you're all arguing about how you have street cars and drive them on the street, you're not pushing the tires to the limit anyway.

Do you really want me to get the information I already posted from a tire designer to prove you have altered the tire dynamics to no benefit? Just curious.

On another note. No, I have never been on Boostimports. Also, is it just me or does anyone else see the irony of both of your screen names?
reted, retard
rotordad, retarded
I'm just glad to be able to argue with people at length about things they have no experience with. I look forward to the incredibly insightful replies that I'm sure are coming.

Yes, because you're the authority on suspension setups... how?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by sofaking

1) I didn't say that running stretched tires makes you faster. I said, "Stretching the tire gives it predictable characteristics on the track, removing the ability for the sidewall to roll negates having to correct for it." Learn to read. Arguing with logical fallacies and misunderstood points doesn't make you right (I guess technically in your mind it does). I made a statement and I've put it to the test in the real world and it does exactly what I said it does.

One person's "preditable" is another person's "unpredictable".
Again, another subjective opinion.
You're in your own fantasy world if you think THAT'S objective.
I think you need to learn and comprehend...

Dictionary.COM
"objective" : not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased; intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

Basically what you FEEL don't count as shit.

OBJECTIVE is who is quicker using a stopwatch.
OBJECTIVE is who is faster using a speed gun.

Oh shit, you don't want to do none of that...
I guess we will never know, huh.

@RETed Do you know anything about drifting? I liken it to rally from the standpoint of damage to the car. If you can afford to re-paint your car every event that's awesome. Most of the pros can't justify that. Not to mention that there are people that give anything a bad name and tend to try and look shitty because it's inevitable that they're going to destroy something nice. Drifting is a sport of style, looks fall into the style category.

Hey, I'm not the one CLAIMING drift cars look prettier...
Why don't you go reread your butt buddies comments earlier?

4) Sounds like you would get a ticket for following too closely. If you're driving at the legally suggested distance you can react to potholes before you hit them.

I think these guys seriously live in some pristine roads...

5) I'm not asking you to "admit you're wrong" I don't really care. I just decided to hop on here and argue because I'm bored and you're idiots.

Ah, finally the truth comes out...
Got bored on the other forum?
Got tired of your fanboi groupies kissing your ass so much?
Or did you pique the ire of a mod(s)?
So this whole tirade was you morons just coming in here causing trouble...
I guess you don't mind being banned and getting kicked out of here, huh.

Find something where someone didn't hit a curb or a pothole and had problems with their stretched tires. I haven't seen any information to back up that it doesn't work well.

Useless argument...
You morons refuse to put that shit on a real track and put some times up.
We were talking OBJECTIVE.
Why bother?
All you're going to do is bitch and moan about how drifting is about style (SUBJECTIVE).
Waste of time.

Oh, and get it right.
I don't think anyone said it would not work.
I think the point was that it's NOT RECOMMENDED.
COMPREHEND.
You morons already call the tire manufacturers and tire engineers idiots...

I'm capable of saying that I'm sure having the sidewall vertical probably offers better performance (in a grip racing situation). But since you're all arguing about how you have street cars and drive them on the street, you're not pushing the tires to the limit anyway.

So you're impying you drift on public streets?

reted, retard

I can't even give you a point on creativity.
You must've flunked art.
No wonder you just follow the flock like sheep.

I'm just glad to be able to argue with people at length about things they have no experience with. I look forward to the incredibly insightful replies that I'm sure are coming.

Ah, another fantasy world comment...
Glad we could accomodate you.
Enjoy it before your ass is banned.


-Ted