Drifting, hellaflush, slammed, tire stretch blog/bash thread.

[sofaking]

Vex, you've used opinion to validate an opinion that you've made. You haven't proven the premise that the sidewalls are deformed in such a way that the strength of the sidewall is compromised when stretching a tire.

You yourself stated that you believe that the sidewalls flex .3 inches under cornering. If we take that as a fact, then stretching .3 inches is within the design specifications of the tire. If we stretch each side by .3 inches then it would still be within the design specifications of the tire. Now we have a .6 inch stretch. I.E. a 215/40-17 could be put on a 9" wide wheel and still be within spec. Obviously this relies on another fact that you haven't proven, but in this case would the inflation of the tire not be acceptable at the factory listed pressure rating?

You've attempted to belittle, avoid the point, misdirect, and argue with a premise that is based on some assumption you've made and not proven.

Another point, I watched the video too. At 5 seconds and 18 seconds into the video it showed the tire from the side. If that sidewall is vertical then I'm blind. I can't speak to what the wheels are, because obviously the 370z had aftermarket wheels it would be possible that the Mustang does too. I know there are aftermarket replica wheels for Mustangs I'm unsure if they go larger than 10" wide. I thought they did but I can't find the website now. I'm not saying it's much of a stretch but I can clearly see the sidewall rolling over towards the tread from the wheel to the contact patch.

Anyhow, I've lost interest. I'll check back for what I'm sure will be a display of Houdini like misdirection with a book of text not addressing any point I made. I'm not interested in replying anymore if you're not actually going to do anything but post links to shit unrelated. I pass to you the trophy RETed gave me for arguing. If anyone wants to PROVE the underlined sentence please feel free. I'm not saying that I'm right, I'm saying that no one has proven me wrong. Also, no, I'm not going to click your link and read another site about something that is unrelated to the topic because you made an assumption from the data correlating it to an unproven assumption made in this argument. I did look at the engineer quote link, it was completely unrelated and it had the most promise of your links.

Feel free to puff up your chest on the internet, but in the end any intelligent person can see that you haven't proven anything, only attempted to mask the fact that you're arguing with unproven assumptions about how you think stretching tires should work.

As for Titanium... ban me if you want. I could give a shit less. If getting people to prove thier point is a bannable offense, I didn't want to be here anyway.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

Vex, you've used opinion to validate an opinion that you've made. You haven't proven the premise that the sidewalls are deformed in such a way that the strength of the sidewall is compromised when stretching a tire.

You yourself stated that you believe that the sidewalls flex .3 inches under cornering. If we take that as a fact, then stretching .3 inches is within the design specifications of the tire. If we stretch each side by .3 inches then it would still be within the design specifications of the tire. Now we have a .6 inch stretch. I.E. a 215/40-17 could be put on a 9" wide wheel and still be within spec. Obviously this relies on another fact that you haven't proven, but in this case would the inflation of the tire not be acceptable at the factory listed pressure rating?

You've attempted to belittle, avoid the point, misdirect, and argue with a premise that is based on some assumption you've made and not proven.

I've used professional opinion on the matter. If you don't like it provide data, hard fact, not subjective conjecture on the matter. Balls in your court.

More to the point let's look at the actuality of the situation:
Sidewall flex or more accurately stated; deflection under cornering load varies from tire to tire, this temporary load instigates the deformation and increased stress on the tire. This load also is temporary and allows the stress to be dissipated once the load is removed. If you're cornering with a stretched tire sidewall flex is removed which means you begin to affect the plastic deformation criteria of the rubber. Sidewall deflection under normal loading conditions of a proper tire are designed to remain in the elastic deformation region. That is the same region you are taking up when you stretch the tire. The more you stretch the less elastic region you have available to allow it to absorb stress. This is fact. Look at any stress strain curve if you don't believe me.

Furthermore you have yet to address the issue of proper tire inflation. Something as simple as inflating a tire should be easy to validate with data. Surely you can provide at least that much for us 'nay sayers'?

[sofaking]

@Vex, that's the point. There are no hard facts about it, there haven't been any studies to my knowledge that prove this one way or the other. I can only go by my experiences and stretching tires works for me.

When you say it doesn't work and quote joe_blow1 or joe_blow2 it doesn't make any difference how they THINK it should work. I've conceded that I believe there are some stretches that are probably too aggressive to be safe, but that doesn't mean that I believe all tire stretching is unsafe.

@RotorDad nice, on the SVE link. I'm not sure how but the tire looks stretched in the video. Clearly I am mistaken, it must be the design of the tire.

I totally get what you're saying about overstretching. I wouldn't personally do that because my spider sense tells me not to. But I do know the difference between knowing for a fact that it's unsafe and just having a feeling based on my understanding of physics that it doesn't look safe.

Broadly categorizing all tire stretching is the same as broadly categorizing anything, it just doesn't work to take an extreme and base your whole argument on it. Ignorance allows people to broadly categorize all Muslims as extremists because a small percentage do something stupid. It doesn't mean there aren't many hard working, intelligent, kind Muslims in the world... it means some people went off the deep end and now people have to make an assumption about everyone and everything that can be associated that they don't understand.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

@Vex, that's the point. There are no hard facts about it, there haven't been any studies to my knowledge that prove this one way or the other. I can only go by my experiences and stretching tires works for me.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

When you say it doesn't work and quote joe_blow1 or joe_blow2 it doesn't make any difference how they THINK it should work. I've conceded that I believe there are some stretches that are probably too aggressive to be safe, but that doesn't mean that I believe all tire stretching is unsafe.

I never said it doesn't work. That's just silly. I stated that it's not wise, and would prove detrimental to the tire. I've provided facts on the nature of rubber and the mechanics that will cause issues. Whether or not you believe me is your call.

[sofaking]

Originally Posted by vex

Absence of evidence is not evidence of evidence

I have experienced stretched tires. Thus my information seems more "real world" than theory. I find that whenever people discuss how things should work, and how things do work, it's completely different most of the time. Example: If you had never worked on a car before and you grabbed a Chilton's manual and decided to rebuild your motor, you would run into problems that aren't explained that real world experience would solve.

Originally Posted by vex

I never said it doesn't work. That's just silly. I stated that it's not wise, and would prove detrimental to the tire. I've provided facts on the nature of rubber and the mechanics that will cause issues. Whether or not you believe me is your call.

"Could prove detrimental". Based on your lack of evidence you can't say that its a certainty, thus your information is not any more correct than mine.Theory is not proven, that's why there's a special word for it.

As for the tire inflation, I keep the tires at a reasonably high pressure setting of 40psi to maintain that the lack of flex in the elastic region. The thing is that you're arguing that I don't want my tires to act the way I actually want them to act. This is a preference, telling someone how they should prefer something is... useless. Technically I'm sure I'm putting more pressure on the sidewall than the manufacturer recommends, but I don't think it's more than the tire can take. If the tire can hold up to constant flexing from racing a car and being throw into corner after corner, it doesn't seem (to me) like it wouldn't be able to take that pressure as a constant. Otherwise it would be very common for people to have the sidewall blow out of their tires while racing. Obviously this is my personal opinion on the matter, just like you have yours. Without hard technically data that I can't prove my point and you can't prove yours. Your information is speculation and theory. My information is real world testing on my car (that I'm sure can be effected by a million different factors that I can't measure), my experience says it works though without detrimental effects.

@RotorDad I did join just to argue. But that doesn't mean I'm not reasonable. If proven wrong I can admit it. The problem with this argument is that it's just like religion or politics. It can't be proven one way or the other yet people are talking like there's some proof. You can only argue your opinion on these matters, stating them as fact is inaccurate at best. Thanks for the welcome.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

I have experienced stretched tires. Thus my information seems more "real world" than theory. I find that whenever people discuss how things should work, and how things do work, it's completely different most of the time. Example: If you had never worked on a car before and you grabbed a Chilton's manual and decided to rebuild your motor, you would run into problems that aren't explained that real world experience would solve.

You seem to be missing the point.

"Could prove detrimental". Based on your lack of evidence you can't say that its a certainty, thus your information is not any more correct than mine.Theory is not proven, that's why there's a special word for it.

Show me where I said could.

As for the tire inflation, I keep the tires at a reasonably high pressure setting of 40psi to maintain that the lack of flex in the elastic region.

You do not mean what you think you mean. Let me give you a little example:

Plastic deformation is never good in such a thing.

The thing is that you're arguing that I don't want my tires to act the way I actually want them to act.

...What?

This is a preference, telling someone how they should prefer something is... useless. Technically I'm sure I'm putting more pressure on the sidewall than the manufacturer recommends, but I don't think it's more than the tire can take.

From whence cometh this surety?

If the tire can hold up to constant flexing from racing a car and being throw into corner after corner, it doesn't seem (to me) like it wouldn't be able to take that pressure as a constant.

Again, apples and oranges. Momentary load in the elastic region will not cause plastic deformation of the tire.

Otherwise it would be very common for people to have the sidewall blow out of their tires while racing. Obviously this is my personal opinion on the matter, just like you have yours.

Mine's not opinion. I'm stating material mechanics.

Without hard technically data that I can't prove my point and you can't prove yours. Your information is speculation and theory.

Actually, mines based on material mechanics which is a proven science. Additionally you can test them yourself. I'll explain how following this.

My information is real world testing on my car (that I'm sure can be effected by a million different factors that I can't measure), my experience says it works though without detrimental effects.

Your experience is limited, and based on false presumptions.

Take a brand new tire prior to mounting. Measure all dimensions and record them. Stretch your tire and mount it. Run it a few times on the track, then remove the wheel and measure again. Are the measurements going to be the same? Depending on the amount of stretch will dictate whether you're in the plastic or elastic region of the material. Do the same with a non-stretched tire, dimensions will be almost if not identical.

If you're stretching the tire outside of manufactures spec and then putting lateral load on the tire I guarantee you will be engaging in the plastic region.

[RotorDad]

Originally Posted by sofaking

Another point, I watched the video too. At 5 seconds and 18 seconds into the video it showed the tire from the side. If that sidewall is vertical then I'm blind. I can't speak to what the wheels are, because obviously the 370z had aftermarket wheels it would be possible that the Mustang does too. I know there are aftermarket replica wheels for Mustangs I'm unsure if they go larger than 10" wide. I thought they did but I can't find the website now. I'm not saying it's much of a stretch but I can clearly see the sidewall rolling over towards the tread from the wheel to the contact patch.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...-Wheels&page=2.

here's a blog about the video on their site as well.
http://www.mylrs.com/blogs/lrs/archi...-test-car.aspx

I will help you out here's a site above for the SVE wheels used for the 2011 Mustang & you can see for that year the widest are 10's. Using a tire that fits within manufactures recommendations is great. My argument is for those who stretch a tire beyond the range listed form the tire company. Like a 225/45-17 on a 17"x12" is definitely not within spec.