Turbo manifold design

mattallac · 12-28-2011, 01:54 AM

Question to rice racing:I have read that the outlet from the waste gate to the exhaust needs to be at least 18 inches long . What is your opinion on that?

RICE RACING · 12-28-2011, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattallac

Question to rice racing:I have read that the outlet from the waste gate to the exhaust needs to be at least 18 inches long . What is your opinion on that?

Probably have to balance outright power at peak rpm to to rest of the power band, bringing the gas in a bit later would not directly impact on the turbine efficiency at a guess.

I don't want to bore people with my technical shit BDC HC style but you can see the pressure build up in the exhaust as the waste gate is cycling to build up the boost to a new higher target (so the high pressure turbine inlet pressure does obviously effect the Turbine outlet pressure in those conditions) Ideal would be to vent the waste gate on its own for mega powered set up's, but I do believe that a good balance of exhaust pressure (turbine outlet pressure) to (intake manifold pressure) actually improves the engine power band. If its way lower it will give you more top end but at the expense of mid range power/response. This seems to have an effect even on stock ported rotaries.

I have a nice detailed picture of the 2lt 145 inches of mercury boosted 3SGTE motor in Millen's Pikes Peak Racer and that thing at 950bhp does not have the WG 18 inches down stream (it does go right back into the exhaust outlet shortly after the turbine exit), so go figure, maybe he should have read the internet more

RICE RACING · 12-28-2011, 02:14 AM

Fuck that is a nice looking turbo!

RICE RACING · 12-28-2011, 02:18 AM

This turbo like the sierra sierra cunts run would be nice to use, it looks good too. > read more here > http://www.importtuner.com/features/...x/viewall.html

EFR 9180 ~900bhp @ 2.4 bar boost pressure

RICE RACING · 12-28-2011, 02:31 AM

The long to short runner thing is a classic and it WILL do your head in LOL.

One of the classic examples of a horse cock manifold is to look up the old TWINS TURBO converted Red Time Attack FD3S, running massive horse cock exhaust manifold with BW turbo and PENI GROW on steroids 5" dump pipe! and 4" exhaust !!!! you can actually see video of it doing ~480rwhp on the interwebz on a dynapack machine when set to ~20psi boost pressure. The amount of fab work and shit on that engine bay set up is homo in the extreme for very little return in performance.

You can see at least two other examples of short manifold cars running same or less boost and dyno'd on the exact same dyno types returning more power and with the same power band if not actually better. All around 500rwhubhp @ 1.3 bar boost pressure.

mattallac · 12-28-2011, 02:39 AM

Rice I have talked to you before about a t3t4 or t4 .I'm gonna stay with the t4 like you advised ,you also gave me some good info on how to get the turbo to spool faster ,my WG goes to atmosphere now ,if i run the WG outlet into the exhaust will it create better mid range for my street port ? Because it is fucking loud.

RICE RACING · 12-28-2011, 02:45 AM

100% you will get better mid range with it plumbed back in.
if you copy any of the good set ups pictured here (lol mine maybe hahah) then its not going to cost you "that much" top end HP honestly.

if you look at the majority of 900bhp 2lt to 2.4lt 4cyl split pulse tuned turbine housing race cars (honestly fuck all difference to these and a 2 rotor in operation), be they Toyota, Ford, LOL Chev ECOTEC! they all have the WG plumbed back in and have minimal losses for power 3" to 3.5" turbine outlet exhausts is more than ample for up to 1100bhp output as shown by many OEM race teams too.

I do have some great pics across all these platforms should get around to scanning some and posting them up.

mattallac · 12-28-2011, 03:17 AM

Ya don't think i will be putting pics on my walls

, but i do appreciate the good advice . Like I have said in the past I'm not a turbo guy (this is my first and not my last ),I'm a vintage rotary guy and the shop i work at only tunes spec rotary race cars ,so my info comes from books ,theory and as little forum talk as possible.(when pertaining to my car).

12-28-2011, 02:14 AM	#3
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	Fuck that is a nice looking turbo! __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-28-2011, 02:18 AM	#4
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	This turbo like the sierra sierra cunts run would be nice to use, it looks good too. > read more here > http://www.importtuner.com/features/...x/viewall.html EFR 9180 ~900bhp @ 2.4 bar boost pressure __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-28-2011, 02:31 AM	#5
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	The long to short runner thing is a classic and it WILL do your head in LOL. One of the classic examples of a horse cock manifold is to look up the old TWINS TURBO converted Red Time Attack FD3S, running massive horse cock exhaust manifold with BW turbo and PENI GROW on steroids 5" dump pipe! and 4" exhaust !!!! you can actually see video of it doing ~480rwhp on the interwebz on a dynapack machine when set to ~20psi boost pressure. The amount of fab work and shit on that engine bay set up is homo in the extreme for very little return in performance. You can see at least two other examples of short manifold cars running same or less boost and dyno'd on the exact same dyno types returning more power and with the same power band if not actually better. All around 500rwhubhp @ 1.3 bar boost pressure. __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-28-2011, 02:45 AM	#7
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	100% you will get better mid range with it plumbed back in. if you copy any of the good set ups pictured here (lol mine maybe hahah) then its not going to cost you "that much" top end HP honestly. if you look at the majority of 900bhp 2lt to 2.4lt 4cyl split pulse tuned turbine housing race cars (honestly fuck all difference to these and a 2 rotor in operation), be they Toyota, Ford, LOL Chev ECOTEC! they all have the WG plumbed back in and have minimal losses for power 3" to 3.5" turbine outlet exhausts is more than ample for up to 1100bhp output as shown by many OEM race teams too. I do have some great pics across all these platforms should get around to scanning some and posting them up. __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-28-2011, 01:54 AM	#1
mattallac Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: crockett ca. Posts: 176 Rep Power: 0	Question to rice racing:I have read that the outlet from the waste gate to the exhaust needs to be at least 18 inches long . What is your opinion on that?

12-28-2011, 02:39 AM	#6
mattallac Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: crockett ca. Posts: 176 Rep Power: 0	Rice I have talked to you before about a t3t4 or t4 .I'm gonna stay with the t4 like you advised ,you also gave me some good info on how to get the turbo to spool faster ,my WG goes to atmosphere now ,if i run the WG outlet into the exhaust will it create better mid range for my street port ? Because it is fucking loud.

12-28-2011, 03:17 AM	#8
mattallac Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: crockett ca. Posts: 176 Rep Power: 0	Ya don't think i will be putting pics on my walls , but i do appreciate the good advice . Like I have said in the past I'm not a turbo guy (this is my first and not my last ),I'm a vintage rotary guy and the shop i work at only tunes spec rotary race cars ,so my info comes from books ,theory and as little forum talk as possible.(when pertaining to my car).