smoke possibilities?

[RETed]

Why don't you take some pics and post them?
I think the old adage: "A picture is worth a thousand words," applies here.
Trying to understand what you're trying to say is making my head hurt.
A picture would makes things a lot easier to understand.

From what it sounds like...the oil drain location is improperly installed?


-Ted

[vex]

Originally Posted by RETed

Why don't you take some pics and post them?
I think the old adage: "A picture is worth a thousand words," applies here.
Trying to understand what you're trying to say is making my head hurt.
A picture would makes things a lot easier to understand.

From what it sounds like...the oil drain location is improperly installed?


-Ted

Perhaps, though I'm fairly certain that the location of the oil drain isn't the issue in this. I've installed the oil drain on the rear of the oil pan, underneath the transmission. The oil drain from the turbo is off to the exhaust port side so the line I have to install comes from the turbo drain under the manifold and then arcs into the oil return port on the oil pan. Out of necessity I have had to install the port there.

I will work on getting a picture for you though it will have to wait until morning as my camera phone can not take good pictures at night.

[RETed]

If it's installed anywhere on the stock oil pan, it's already wrong.
The dump side of the oil drain needs to drain above the oil level.
Assume the oil level is going to be as high as the stock oil pan flange.
This is why the stock 13BT turbo drains into the front oil cover and not into the stock oil pan.
The oil draining off the turbo needs to have the least resistance going back into the oil supply / pan.
Check any of the turbo books - Corky Bell's Maximum Boost or Hugh McInnes Turbocharging (or any other turbo reference) - they will all tell you this.

If this is the case, you're getting oil backing up into the turbo CHRA and exiting either from the dynamic seal(?) in the compressor or the piston compression ring through the turbine.


-Ted

[vex]

Originally Posted by RETed

If it's installed anywhere on the stock oil pan, it's already wrong.
The dump side of the oil drain needs to drain above the oil level.
Assume the oil level is going to be as high as the stock oil pan flange.
This is why the stock 13BT turbo drains into the front oil cover and not into the stock oil pan.
The oil draining off the turbo needs to have the least resistance going back into the oil supply / pan.
Check any of the turbo books - Corky Bell's Maximum Boost or Hugh McInnes Turbocharging (or any other turbo reference) - they will all tell you this.

If this is the case, you're getting oil backing up into the turbo CHRA and exiting either from the dynamic seal(?) in the compressor or the piston compression ring through the turbine.


-Ted

Which I understand and completely agree. The problem comes from me modifying the system already in place. In that respect I put it in the only location available to me. Is there any solution which I can put in place to remedy the problem besides replacement and subsequent disassembly of the front cover? Is there any benefit to installing a larger diameter chamber mid way through to the oil return port on the pan--I don't know if it would do anything, as I don't know what the oil needs to have it return to normal from the foam state?

I've noticed that the smoke is eliminated by ensuring that the oil return line is as straight as possible when it leaves the turbo. I'm thinking using a threaded pipe and installing it from the turbo flange down about 6-8in and then 90* back to the oil pan. My only concern is that the 90* bend would be too much for an easy transition for the foamed oil to return to the oil pan.

I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has any.

[RETed]

The only other spot that's kinda easily accessible would be the front oil cover.
I believe there is a "slant" on the side closest to the turbo.
That slant can be easily drilled and tapped (or welded).
Can you snake the oil drain line to the front?
I remember you saying it's easier to go toward the rear...

I don't know how your turbo exhaust manifold is designed, but you might be able to drill a hole in either the rotor housings or middle iron?
This has complications due to the fitting / pipe being so close to the hot turbo exhaust manifold though...

If you're going to try a sump, you'll need to pump the oil back into the supply -i.e. the oil pan.
This is not the best way as you're complicating the whole system, but sometimes it's a necessity.
Question is...how do you find a reliable pump that can handle hot oil?

Whatever the case, try to get the oil drain (from the turbo) to drop straight down first.
Try to stay away from bends right at the turbo.
Run the largest hose you can fit.
-10AN is minimum in my book, and I try and shoot for -12AN if possible.
Larger is better, but fittings get expensive!
Actually, stay away from AN fittings is possible...
Use / find flange / pipe like how the stock oil drain is.
This is the least restrictive - look at AN fittings *inside* and a lot of them neck down a lot!
Problem with this set-up is that you gotta use (soft) hose + clamps - heat destroys most types of (soft) hoses.

Good luck!


-Ted

[vex]

Originally Posted by RETed

The only other spot that's kinda easily accessible would be the front oil cover.
I believe there is a "slant" on the side closest to the turbo.
That slant can be easily drilled and tapped (or welded).
Can you snake the oil drain line to the front?
I remember you saying it's easier to go toward the rear...

I don't know how your turbo exhaust manifold is designed, but you might be able to drill a hole in either the rotor housings or middle iron?
This has complications due to the fitting / pipe being so close to the hot turbo exhaust manifold though...

If you're going to try a sump, you'll need to pump the oil back into the supply -i.e. the oil pan.
This is not the best way as you're complicating the whole system, but sometimes it's a necessity.
Question is...how do you find a reliable pump that can handle hot oil?

Whatever the case, try to get the oil drain (from the turbo) to drop straight down first.
Try to stay away from bends right at the turbo.
Run the largest hose you can fit.
-10AN is minimum in my book, and I try and shoot for -12AN if possible.
Larger is better, but fittings get expensive!
Actually, stay away from AN fittings is possible...
Use / find flange / pipe like how the stock oil drain is.
This is the least restrictive - look at AN fittings *inside* and a lot of them neck down a lot!
Problem with this set-up is that you gotta use (soft) hose + clamps - heat destroys most types of (soft) hoses.

Good luck!


-Ted

Thanks Ted. I think my original plan is to get metal pipe with an NPT thread. Screw it in and go straight down for a few inches. Then a 45* to a soft hose adapter. Soft hose to the other adapter and run it onto another hard pipe into the oil pan.

If I still have problems I may just use this:
http://www.turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pu...odel_Pump.html

If I still have problems with that set up I'll plug up the npt fitting on the oil pan, drill and tap into the oil cover. It's just so f'ing crowded up front.

It was raining today so I couldn't grab a picture of my engine bay to give you an idea.