E85, stock turbo II

[Ender]

Originally Posted by sen2two

now, what im trying to figure out, is if i can just upgrade to 4x750's instead of the 550's (thats slightly over 30% increase) without any tuning...

[sen2two]

Originally Posted by Ender

yeah, thanks for the help. this was informative...



felx fuel cars do not run different MAPs everytime they switch from regular gas to e85. but the cars are tued to run better on gas, but drive just fine on e85. kinda like a happy medium, but more tuned towards gasoline.

its no different for any car. if you set the fuel increase right (atleast from what ive seen) you should be able to run it without any tuning. just seeing if maybe someone out there has done it yet. tips from EXPERIENCED people is what i look for. not people posting cause there bored such as yourself.

[moremazda]

Originally Posted by sen2two

felx fuel cars do not run different MAPs everytime they switch from regular gas to e85.

Yes they do. In fact the ecu has two distinctly different sets of fuel tables for base and correction (including fuel temperature) that it blends between based upon the ethanol content of the fuel in the lines. Ethanol is not a straight conversion like you are making it out to be. Ethanol has many different properties than gasoline that are addressed by the modern flex fuel ECU's.

Like I said on the "other" board you could swap in the 720's and for the most part in the summer it should work just fine, but your millage will most likely suck, and if you drive it in the winter good luck getting it started. On the positive note you could probably run that stock turbo right through the hood and not have to worry about the engine dieing from pre-ignition, compressor wheel shrapnel maybe, but not pre-ignition.

Ryan

[Boostmaniac]

Originally Posted by moremazda

Yes they do. In fact the ecu has two distinctly different sets of fuel tables for base and correction (including fuel temperature) that it blends between based upon the ethanol content of the fuel in the lines. Ethanol is not a straight conversion like you are making it out to be. Ethanol has many different properties than gasoline that are addressed by the modern flex fuel ECU's.

Like I said on the "other" board you could swap in the 720's and for the most part in the summer it should work just fine, but your millage will most likely suck, and if you drive it in the winter good luck getting it started. On the positive note you could probably run that stock turbo right through the hood and not have to worry about the engine dieing from pre-ignition, compressor wheel shrapnel maybe, but not pre-ignition.

Ryan

Lol, yeah. 18 psi, 74 degrees BTDC, zero pre-ignition.... if it'll start.

If you do this, just borrow a wideband and keep a close eye on your AFR's. Remember the stock ECU loves to run pig rich so you may end up having to pull fuel around the torque peak if it gets chunky on the dyno.

This sounds like a fun experiment, let me know how it goes.

[SecondGenPat]

about a month after buying my stock/unmodified 87 n/a I tried a full tank of E85 out of curiosity to what the primitive eec would do:

The car started every time, however it ran like crap, the idle was horrible, huge lack of power, constant misfires, and horrible fuel consumption.

Those were my results, hope that helps in your decision.

If you want to run E85, go for it. Be an innovator, challenge the old ideas, try new things. If it breaks, it breaks, but you will come out of it with more knowledge than the guy who is too afraid or just does what he is told to do. That is what makes our passion for automobiles a passion.
-Pat

[Flooder]

Originally Posted by Ender

The point of his post was to make fun of you for even considering doing something like this with zero tuning. IE, you sir are crazy .

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Flooder

The point of his post was to make fun of you for even considering doing something like this with zero tuning. IE, you sir are crazy .

I think you're half right. I don't think he thought he was crazy.........

Originally Posted by RETed

Ethanol tends to settle out with any mixture with gasoline.
This is not a problem when you don't let it sit around, like for more daily drivers.
It's a BIG problem when you don't drive your vehicle every day - I know some of us don't.
Go talk to boat owners about this - they will tell you the real deal.

-Ted

Ethanol is the worst thing that has happened to fuel since it was first created. Here are a few stories

I bought my boat about 5 or 6 years ago from a mechanic. The boat ran GREAT it's entire life until the very first tank of ethanol went into it. She ran for 15 minutes before the filter was clogged along with all 3 2-barrel carbs. I got the boat cheap, drained the tank, all 35 gallons of it and watched CHUCKS of schmeg fall out, new water seperating fuel filter, rebuilt the pump and all the carbs. Fresh tank of gas and the boat ran for 20 minutes before it wouldn't idle at all. Looked at the filter and drained out shit the consistancey of syrup. Drained the tank again, watched chunks of schmeg fall out. Pulled the tank from the boat and dropped a length of 3/8 chain in the tank, sloshed it around, put a few gallons in, syphoned it out and repeated for HOURS untill everything was out. No problems since.

I know countless people that have had to have their decks removed and thier tanks replaced becuase they couldn't be cleaned or becuase they were fiberglass. Virtually every gas powered Bertram on the water has or will have fuel issues.

Fiberglass tanks are literally MELTING and entire fuel systems, carbs, and sometimes engines need replacement.

I just had a 25 year old boston whaler that wasn't running, snaked the line and something the consistancy of a fishing worm 3/8" diameter and about 1" long came out. Pulled the filter and found the same shit in every opening of the filter and coating the base. When I left it out to show the owner, it shrunk in size by about 90% overnight. Still the same consistancy though and very stretchy

His neighbor was draining his filter with what was the consistancy of rotten yogurt. I'm actually going to be pulling his deck and replacing his tank this winter on the side.

Even the boats that are driven EVERYDAY are getting water in the tanks from condensation or evaporation

Look at the boats fuel vent, I can pretty much garuntee that if the boat is unwaxed fiberglass, you'll see mold, actual mold forming around the vent becuase the ethanol is attracting that much moisture. I just pulled the filler on my 7 and spent about an hour cleaning all the corrosion off that fucking thing. Think about that for a minute.... the ethanol is causing corrosion on a piece that it touches for all of a few minutes every week.

The fuel filter on my buddies Volvo was clogged solid, pulled the pump to see how bad the tank was and it was spotless, Fords seem especially susceptable to this from what I've been told. Something about the glue in the filters that they use is breaking down and clogging itself.

Ethanol broke down my epoxy coated fuel tank, clogged my filter and cost me an engine.

Ethanol and all the propagandists promoting it can suck my left nut while I shower their face with baby batter. It's more expensive than gas, get WAY less mileage, fucks up everything that it touches, ruins vehicles, boats and wallets... I WAS getting 22-25 mpg in my Cherokee, now ~17-18mpg. So you add 10% Ethanol and I lose 23-32% of my mileage, so in REAL terms I'm using 13-22% MORE fossil fuels to save 10%???? Where the hell did these people learn math?