Defined Autoworks 523whp 35r!!

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by RotorDad

Well getting another dyno reading seems like it will be the way to go. Gauging power by a trap speed will not give you the answers you are looking for. 14-15 psi may seem low, but I don't really have any experience with a 35r on a rotary. As I said above there is too many other factors which will result in different outcomes. Also the FD you spoke of ran those times at around 2700 lbs, because listing the car with out the driver weight is useless. The car didn't drive it self down the track, an average person I would think to be 140-200 lbs. Another thing to think about which may not make much of a difference, but this is in a 240SX not FD. I just think to prove the the claims another dyno run would be the best route to take.

This thread is turning to shit quick.

If you doubt speeds as a measure of power then you have no idea of physics. You can learn some by looking at my page, use proper gear and you will see direct correlation with "terminal speed" and "power" or lack of power in some peoples cases

I for one accept dynapack (and you rear hub power result), they are one of the best dynos period to use in the common battler spec domestic person "off the street general public" alternatives. if you run it at 1.00 TCF then what it gives you is what you have. In my experience if you want to guess your engine power you ONLY use a TCF of around 8% *little more* when you apply this to proper physics *again see my web page* you will see that if you are honest (weight measure) and (engine power estimate) then YOU WILL EQUAL the theoretical "mph" terminal speed target at std temp and pressure conditions.

But hey I only do this everyday and teach it for a living as well it helps to have the best measuring gear in the world and an education to make the most use of it when you tie it all in together you see that lots of stuff makes perfect sense in dyno land and in reality land

[FDwarrior]

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

[David Jerome]

Originally Posted by FDwarrior

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by FDwarrior

Wow, this thread did go somewhat crazy. Im going to speak as a customer here. I have seen many different cars on the same dyno I was on. I have also seen those cars on different dynos as well, all producing the same numbers basically(dyno brand differences).

First off, my engine is the result of many years of R&D. Second if any one has any doubt of what has been done even after the results have been posted, I don't know what to tell you. Just because some of you have seen 1zillion 35r 13b's not do what mine did means nothing, except maybe defined should have built there engines. Like I said before there are things done to my engine that are really never done(mostly internal, one of the things is clearly visible in my engine pics), a result of R&D. All I can say is maybe some of the doubters should step up there R&D. I said it before I just want credit to go where it belongs, to Defined Autoworks the ones who built the engine.

And I will go to any dyno, or any track. The track part might be hard now that it's snowing where I live.

First, I'm curious to what you're referring to when you say clearly visible in one engine bay pic?

For me, I usually see it as the other way around. My favorite example is the guy that made 437rwhp on a dyno-jet with a GT42R and 21psi....... think about that for a minute. I feel that there is ALOT to be made.... or in most cases lost, because people don't know what they're doing when it comes to tuning. I believe this is where alot of people get stuck with the "normal." Most REW twins seem to land between 350-360 and occasionally with a touch more boost, a little more timing, a little less fuel will get upwards of 380. In my case, there is all that plus the most effiecient engine I could build, big exhaust, short intercooler piping, small core.... it netted me 405rwhp on dyno-jet. Take the myriads of GT35R guys out there running very little timing, 10.5:1 afr's making around 4-425. Lean it out a lot, like a full point, add some timing, reduce the EMAP, and see what happens. An extra 25% hp I don't think is outrageous.

This is also a 1.0 A/R snail correct?

Originally Posted by David Jerome

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.

So what's you're plan when I get into town David? Hit up a dyno-pak and put that correction factor in to see where we land? I wouldn't be opposed to going to a drag strip either. I warn you though, I've never once drag raced so be prepared to laugh your ass off You sound like you have a cery good grasp of the different dyno's and how they measure everything, we'll have to chat about this in great depth. I just accepted that different tools measure things differently and left it at that as there was so much contradicting info on the net when I was looking into it years ago.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by David Jerome

I figured this is the reaction I would receive. I am taking no credit from anyone. If you are willing to run the car in the spring at a track I will still be willing to pay. I assume you will be honest and keep the boost at 15lbs and see what happens. Like I said I hope you prove me wrong, you wont find anyone more willing and happy to benchrace for the rotary and what it can do. I simply said it was hard for me to believe, and that is why I offered the challenge and am willing to pay. Im not raising the BS flag and running away. This would be excellent advertising for Defined if your trap speeds can back up the dyno numbers.

Im simply saying I know what different dynos can do and how they can be altered. My fd made 360rwhp on right at 13lbs on the stock twins, atleast thats what the dyno dynamics said once the shop owner put in his calculation to relate it to a dynojet. Call me crazy but I dont believe my medium streetport, Non-sequential fd made 360rwhp on 13lbs with a PFC base tune.

Look mate, MOST of the numbers dyno's punch out are total bullshit!

I say again, you apply physics as applied to hundreds! of legit cars as listed on my page and you will see (as you are saying) that by some way that the estimated BHP *engine power* NEVER corresponds to the mph it achieves over the last 66ft of a 1320ft acceleration test

Test a car in std temp, pressure day and show me the "mph" and I will believe that far more than most other forms of evidence. This is why I have high precision corner scales, and a $30k worth of Race Logic VBOX testing equipment. Also good to apply other very basic testing procedures such as in gear 90-140kmh test (3rd) and other more std tests which eliminate shifting excuses and launching etc etc like 100 to 200kmh or your backwards english imperial 60-130mph equivalents .......

It really does separate the bullshit for the facts!

http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-ii...ing-tuning.htm

On the DynoDynamics (in NORMAL MODE! not skewed like you cunts do to match optimistic dynojet guesses!) I tested dozens of cars and they put out stupidly high figures! then test the REAL power as delivered to the real wheels on my VBOX and self made forumla and its always around 13% LOWER!!!!! apply my well researched guess to estimate the legitimate engine power and put it into many proven forumlas (that have been used to check hundreds of legitimate supercars!) and by some lucky hand of god! the NUMBERS ADD UP!.

I have published a ton of this information of proper testing here> for anyone bored to read it > http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.p...=VBOX#p2345194 Mountains of cars from ALL genera, see how you measure up and what "rear wheel HP dreams you are putting your faith in!"

p.s. (ref VBOX tests of American Ferrari F40 I got done and acquired actual corner weight check after test) There are some great comparisons there from stuff I know intimately well (Ferrari F40 for example and my own car) if you get yourself a simple VBOX consumer range item, you can quickly and easily do any in gear acceleration tests to compare yourself to very well known factory cars. One you will see on that page is a basic 60mph to 85mph (5000rpm to 7000rpm) power band check *ironically identical for both cars gearing wise so its a great comparo. American Ferrari F40 = 2.10 seconds V's mine on 18psi at 2.19 seconds (and my car being 100kg lighter in this test) you do the math lol at guessing the power of each car I currently run 1.52kg/cm or around 21.6psi boost pressure, that should be enough to not only beat the American F40 I have first hand data on but also its faster Euro cousin that is closer in weight to my Mighty RICESP Mazda RX7 and it WILL trap near 130mph in an old school 1320ft test......... if its got the power to beat all these other incremental measures. My heap of shit is 1320kg when tested and it "only" has just under 500 genuine engine donkeys under the hood! Some other peoples cars with OVER 600bhp and weight near 1100kg should do almost 140mph by comparison ............... but they NEVER do and always have an excuse to follow as well ironically LOL.

[RotorDad]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

This thread is turning to shit quick.

If you doubt speeds as a measure of power then you have no idea of physics. You can learn some by looking at my page, use proper gear and you will see direct correlation with "terminal speed" and "power" or lack of power in some peoples cases

Hey I will honestly say that you all definitely know more than me, but still how is trap speed going to determine how many pounds of boost he is using to make these claimed numbers. I am aware that dyno's can be fudged & I understand that there may be questions to the claims by another member. I just figured if Mr. Jerome was going to pay for Dyno time, then going to a neutral / unbiased shop to make a run for some results, where the boost levels can be better monitored. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too trusting & just taking the info provided by the OP as correct.

[FDwarrior]

Originally Posted by RotorDad

Hey I will honestly say that you all definitely know more than me, but still how is trap speed going to determine how many pounds of boost he is using to make these claimed numbers. I am aware that dyno's can be fudged & I understand that there may be questions to the claims by another member. I just figured if Mr. Jerome was going to pay for Dyno time, then going to a neutral / unbiased shop to make a run for some results, where the boost levels can be better monitored. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too trusting & just taking the info provided by the OP as correct.

We do dyno at a neutral/ unbiased shop. We use Slowmotion Motorsports dyno. Slowmotion tunes many cars but specializes in hondas, and could care less about rotaries. What happens is we go to there dynos, throw the car on, tune, and then pay them. Defined no longer has there own dynos, so we use there dyno's or another shops.

[C. Ludwig]

This is one of the problems you run into when you start comparing dyno numbers. Any dyno numbers, let alone numbers from different brands of dynos.

As an example, Enzo's brothers car was mentioned. That car has dyno charts from a Dyno Dynamics dyno that say 501 peak. Problem with that is that Enzo skewed the actual DD reading by 15% to emulate a Dynojet number. Not a problem with that really, IMO anyway, as the Dynojet numbers are the most common numbers people throw around. I have, myself, run cars back to back on a Dyno Dynamics and a Dynojet, and the 15% number is exactly what I found. Even if you use the same dyno to measure the car in question and a standard control subject, who is to say input factors of the dyno aren't being skewed? Racing dynos doesn't get you anywhere.

So what? So, trap speed then becomes the best indicator of relative power. Trap speed is relatively immune to how you get the car off the line. Whether you nail the 60 ft or ease off the line, you'll trap similarly. Since this car is built as a drift car, I would guess you'll never see quarter mile numbers on it. Just a guess.

[RotorDad]

Well with all said I respect the car & the work involved in the build. I'll leave the rest to the professionals.

[RICE RACING]

Honestly you don't have anything to prove to any cock suckers on the internet, if they don't believe your dynapack result and want to cast aspersions then its a reflection of their lack of ability/and real world knowledge (not googled or forum'd shit) nothing more.

It's a sweet car with great power

[David Jerome]

Also, I highly doubt the dragstrip will be open. We have an 1/8 mile local that tries to stay open on weekends throughout the winter but weather rarely allows it.

[classicauto]

I will say this:

I have been around for a while and seen alot of tuners work. Very very few people I've met in my time in the rotary game were as well sorted, hard working and knowledgeable as Logan. Extremely thorough in all aspects of his job.

I'm not blindly saying that whatever comes out of that shop is 100% legit (although after my experience there I have no reason to believe otherwise) I'm simply saying that if anyone's capable of exceeding "the norm" in any application - it is Defined Autoworks.

I don't doubt the numbers this car makes. But I would like to see drag times simply out of pure enthusiasim

EDIT: And I see your secret mod hiding in that picture. Snowbrush hood props are good for an extra 10% to the hubs any day of the week!

[NoDOHC]

All this talk about crazy acceleration almost had me talked into a turbo, but I keep reminding myself that I like keeping my apex seals in the grooves. I don't know enough about turbo tuning to be anything but dangerous (to my engine).

Nice numbers, keep up the good work.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

All this talk about crazy acceleration almost had me talked into a turbo, but I keep reminding myself that I like keeping my apex seals in the grooves. I don't know enough about turbo tuning to be anything but dangerous (to my engine).

Nice numbers, keep up the good work.

Once you go turbo you NEVER go back to NA unless its in a go cart and has 3 or more rotors

It's not that hard, but then again you need to have a good handle on what your doing like these boys in this thread from the given shop. A great example of how not to do it can be searched under BDC

[FDwarrior]

The japanese time attack circuit is insane. I think some of those garages over in japan spend tons of cash to be the fastest around tsukuba. Im not sure what dyno's are the most used in japan.