17x9+20 with no stretch?

[TitaniumTT]

Ahhhhhhh, yeah, talking two different ends here. That'll make a big difference. I'm also one to err on the side of not contacting the body. She's not a track slut.

Tire/wheel fitment is such a touchy subject. Ignoring the appearance aspect of it, noone wants the be wrong. As far as rear camber, what are your thoughts? I've been told, and it seems to be pretty spot on, anything more than 1.5* really detracts from forward traction. One of these days when I get all the other stupid shit worked out with the FC I want to get some of the AWR individual camber and toe adjusters. Any expiernece with those?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by speedjunkie

And how was he any more offensive or harsh to you guys than you were to him? Especially now with you calling him a bitch?? You're really a big man Ted. I'm not into the FC world just yet, so I don't know everything that you know about FCs, and you do seem very knowledgeable. But I'll be honest, most of what I've seen out of you over the past few years just show you to be a huge prick, but maybe I've just had a hard time reading your personality over the forums. I will admit that Ian was being a tool in some cases too, but it's not like you and others weren't being tools to him too. I know Ian not just over the internet but in person and he's a good guy. I would imagine you guys are good guys in person too, but several in this thread and argument (including Ian) have shown themselves to be douchebags over the internet LOL. Not that you guys or Ian are like that on the internet/forums all the time, because I've seen otherwise, that's just how it seems in this case haha.

Sorry to rehash this, but I find this kinda funny...
(Most of you guys who know me well enough know why...)

I think you're an FD owner?
You don't know how much restaint it took to pound out those replies.
My old M.O. was to just flame away, but I've started to include some gist of a technical reply just to make things a little bit more palatable.
If that small tiff offends you...you should go find some of my old shit which I do not hold back...

Just remember, I only started to call him a "bitch" cause he brought up "dicks hard" and "pussy wet".
I dunno about you, but I have a hard time giving anyone who uses those terms so...loosely...any credit or respect, irregardless how he is in person.

As for the topic...
There's several points being missed here still.
1) Lip profile - not all wheels run the same lip profile. Remember, "rim width" is definied by (loosely) the width (inside) the wheel that is between tire bead to tire bead. This allows a great variation of lip profile that protrude after that. I've taken pics (evil forum) of a (17" x) 8" wide, +30 using a 6mm bolt shank for clearance. I really don't like running anything under 6mm of clearance for street use; no, I don't like running 10kg-mm+ springs on the street. This extrapolates to a 9", +18 for the same clearance. Add that 6mm of clearance, and you get your 9", +24.
Could this fit? Possibly.
Could this fit ALL wheels? I doubt it.
For a 9", +20, this will fit giving you about 4mm of clearance.
This is way too tight for ME.
Now, this is assuming NORMAL tire to wheel mountings.
Run hippari stretch, and you can get ultra close to the insides and not worry about the tire "sidewall" contacting anything.
9" can run a full 255 wide tire.
IMNSHO, running narrower than 255 on a 9.0" wide wheel is a waste of time - see below.
Can you run a 255 wide tire in front on an FC with stock front fenders - NO, unless your definition of a "fender pull" is over an inch!
Thus, IMNSHO, running a 9.0" wide wheel up front under stock fenders is a royal waste of time.

2) Going back to stabilizer bars and balance... The (full) effect of the stabilizer bars balance is due to load. Dori bitches don't induce full load on most stabilizer bars systems due to the nature of the driving. (Don't need to explain this to everyone, right?) Thus, trying to compare GRIP versus DRIFT performance when it comes to identical stabilizer bars set-up's is a royal waste of time.

That iani-guy-whatever already admited he's trying to drift an "underpowered" car.
Why burden an already down-on-power set-up by running bigger / heavier-that-necessary wheels?
I don't get it.
Running smaller / lighter wheels would gain you better unsprung weight and rotational mass performance, but no...gotta look pretty for the drift kiddies...
This is why it puzzles me that josh18_2k - who I thought was a real racer - was defending such a set-up and then defends his comments are purely a clearance issue?
Hey, you're running a V8-powered FC that warrants such big rubber - no argument here.
So you're saying that because you can run 285's, that we all should too?

(I think I had too much turkey...)


-Ted

[josh18_2k]

i dont really understand what you're getting at in regards to me.
all i was really trying to say previously is that a front 17x9 +20 does in fact "fit" (technically) meaning that the wheel will never contact anything solid, other than a curb. tire fitment is a different discussion.
i also just dont understand why people get so uppity about other people's cars. i choose to run a certain setup, and thats my business. i put my information out there so other people can glean from it. its pretty much irrelevant to the slammed/flush crowd, and you'll never see them commenting on it.
if someone wants to do wide+stretch, thats their business. if they have questions, i'll still help them out as best as i know how. their choice of wheel/tire doesnt affect my life in any way so im not going to get mad about it.

in the case of ian, he's obviously not trying to set his car to maximize lateral acceleration. he stated up front he just wants to look cool (completely subjective!), while running skinny tires. ok. we all know there are tons of other people floating around who have the same goals. they can look at ian's post, and his pictures, and see just how his setup fits. if thats what they're looking for, then ian just made a contribution.
its the same reason people do all kinds of crap to cars- body kits, tint, etc. nothing to do with performance, its asthetic.

the only time i have a problem with all that is when i see slammed/stretched people saying its good for handling. thats when you'll see me start to argue. IMHO, those are the real idiots, not the ian types. "its on rails bro." - yah, those are called bumpstops.


the ONLY purpose of the 285 thing was to reference the fact that it has the same sidewall height as the skinny 17" tires these guys are stretching on the front, and to show that its impossobible for a front wheel to contact the fender.
and i dont 285 front for street tires, thats overkill imo. thats my autox setup. streets are 255/275

[Ender]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

One of these days when I get all the other stupid shit worked out with the FC I want to get some of the AWR individual camber and toe adjusters. Any expiernece with those?

Mazdatrix sells ones that have grease zerts. In retrospect I probably should have shelled out the extra money for those instead. Some people have had these break in the past, but if it's for race use, well yeah it's going to see heavy loads. I got the adjustable center link, too, to make sure I had enough adjustability to keep the camber where I wanted it (which is stock for now).

[josh18_2k]

Originally Posted by RETed

Can you run a 255 wide tire in front on an FC with stock front fenders - NO, unless your definition of a "fender pull" is over an inch!
Thus, IMNSHO, running a 9.0" wide wheel up front under stock fenders is a royal waste of time

BLUE_TII and MaczPayne have both been running 255's, on 17x8.5 and 17x9 respectively, under stock front fenders for a while (over 2 yrs). not pulled, just folded the inner lip flat. as far as i know, both guys track their cars as well.

brian- i wouldnt bother with the toe links. MMR's spherical control arm bearings retain the OEM toe adjuster so there's really no need.
i also prefer MMR's individual camber adjusters as it incorporates a rod end. AWR/Mazdatric links have metal sleeves on both ends, and the control arm movement isnt completely uniaxial.

anything between 1-1.5* rear camber is fine for a street car. 1 is probably ideal. i run 1.5* with 315 v710s and get even tire temps.

[MaczPayne]

I didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add some of my experiences. Use the information however you want, it's here for you.

255/40/17 on 17x9 +24

-You will need a coilover type suspension since OE style coils will interfere.
-If you have sloppy wheel bearings, the wheel will most likely rub on the coils.
-I was running -2deg F -1R on the street, with rolled fenders. The car was also my DD so tire wear was adversely affected (especially during my new motor's break-in)

I wanted to run a more DD friendly camber setting, so I ended up flaring the fronts and rears a little bit, it's not really noticeable.


I have since moved to a different car, running a different set of wheels.


17x9 +17, 255/40/17

The Mandeville BBK gives me a 3mm thinner rotor hat up front, so the wheel is essentially +20mm. To use 255's up front with tire friendly camber settings, I had to really flare out the fender - about an inch. I did an okay job - it could be done better but it suits my purposes for now.

The rears got the same roll and flare, and was considerably easier to do than the fronts.

The alignment I run on the street is very mild - -0.5deg F -1deg R

Autocross: -3deg F -1deg R, 1/16th toe out F, 0 rear, OE caster
Road course: Similar, but 0 toe F and R, and -2deg F (Really doesn't hold much weight since I auto-x more)

Pics:




Hope this helps!

[RETed]

^^^
What tire brand and model?

*I* noticed that your wheels are pulled.
Fronts are easier than rears.
For you to pull the rears that much must've took a lot of time.


-Ted

[MaczPayne]

Tires are Nitto NT-05 (Love them!), and the wheels are MB Comps

You're right, the fronts are easier to do, but the metal may buckle if pulled too much.

I spent maybe a whole day rolling all corners, heat gun and all that - but I still had some flaking.

[RETed]

Merry Christmas!


-Ted

[vex]

Come on B, you're slacking and still slow.

[RETed]

I incite the BAN HAMMAR due to provoking a mod!


-Ted

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

brian- i wouldnt bother with the toe links. MMR's spherical control arm bearings retain the OEM toe adjuster so there's really no need.
i also prefer MMR's individual camber adjusters as it incorporates a rod end. AWR/Mazdatric links have metal sleeves on both ends, and the control arm movement isnt completely uniaxial.

anything between 1-1.5* rear camber is fine for a street car. 1 is probably ideal. i run 1.5* with 315 v710s and get even tire temps.

Thanks Josh, I appreciate it. I'll have to take a peak at those. Something's a little messed up in the rear and I see about a 1/4* difference in rear camber. Although the rear is pretty well dialed in, just need to really dial in the front

Originally Posted by vex

Come on B, you're slacking and still slow.

And you're still gay for not trotting over to Bills!

Originally Posted by RETed

I incite the BAN HAMMAR due to provoking a mod!


-Ted

Mod??? Please.... Admin foo!!!!!

[TitaniumTT]

Just to put an end to this - Josh and Johnson win this thread.

There is now a place in the drifting section where you guys can bash each other till your fingers fall off. Keep it out of tech threads.

Anyone else think this thread should be trimmed more?