800+rwhp 13B PP

[RETed]

Originally Posted by forcefed7

The torque curve looks strange because of two things.

-Tire/clutch slippage when the vehicle comes into boost

-Boost dropping off at higher rpms.

Hey, appreciate offering more information on this set-up!

The assumption was that nothing was slipping and that 100% (or close to it) of the power was getting to the dyno...
I give you credit that the graph is really smooth for stuff slipping during the run!
The smooth graph was the reason why I assumed there were no problem...
Hell, even watching the vid, I didn't see no obvious signs of slipage...

Yeah, the power drop had me scratching my head...
I thought for a split second that maybe the turbo (turbine) was too small but dismissed it cause of the total power output.
Hadn't thought that of the wastegate not being able to hold the pressure all the way through - 66mm (Tial?) yikes!

My problem was that I did not have sound when I viewed the video...DOH.
When I tried to punch in the gear ratios for a 4th gear 1:1, it was way over stock redline...another DOH.
With the graph shifted over like that, now the graph makes more sense.

I've got one question, if you don't mind...
How is your intake system designed?
Stock TB with modified stock intake manifold?
Single aftermarket TB with custom runners with everything running through it?
Semi-PP's running through it's own dedicated TB system?


-Ted

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RETed

Hey, appreciate offering more information on this set-up!

The assumption was that nothing was slipping and that 100% (or close to it) of the power was getting to the dyno...
I give you credit that the graph is really smooth for stuff slipping during the run!
The smooth graph was the reason why I assumed there were no problem...
Hell, even watching the vid, I didn't see no obvious signs of slipage...

Yeah, the power drop had me scratching my head...
I thought for a split second that maybe the turbo (turbine) was too small but dismissed it cause of the total power output.
Hadn't thought that of the wastegate not being able to hold the pressure all the way through - 66mm (Tial?) yikes!

My problem was that I did not have sound when I viewed the video...DOH.
When I tried to punch in the gear ratios for a 4th gear 1:1, it was way over stock redline...another DOH.
With the graph shifted over like that, now the graph makes more sense.

I've got one question, if you don't mind...
How is your intake system designed?
Stock TB with modified stock intake manifold?
Single aftermarket TB with custom runners with everything running through it?
Semi-PP's running through it's own dedicated TB system?


-Ted

Hi Ted,
The wastegate is a Precision 66mm. When I first started the tuning I had softer springs in it, and it was capable keeping the boost as low as 8psi.

The intake manifold and throttle body is from Xtreme Rotary. The throttle body has four throttle plates, with the primary plates work off of a progressive linkage design. Drivablity is excellent. I did have to make some changes to it, but overall great product.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by forcefed7

Hi Ted,
The wastegate is a Precision 66mm. When I first started the tuning I had softer springs in it, and it was capable keeping the boost as low as 8psi.

The intake manifold and throttle body is from Xtreme Rotary. The throttle body has four throttle plates, with the primary plates work off of a progressive linkage design. Drivablity is excellent. I did have to make some changes to it, but overall great product.

On these similar 1000bhp 13B set up's I run twin 44mm waste gates to get over the problem you are facing now. Minimum spring pressure you can get away with on 350kpa abs and above is 1.4bar.

Single large WG will never work correctly with a "lower" base spring as you are finding out.

[RICE RACING]

All pics are here for those interested > http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...k/Dads%20FD3S/

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Single large WG will never work correctly with a "lower" base spring as you are finding out.

CO2 could address this If the goal was to make more power we would've just swapped to a stiffer wastegate spring.

[RICE RACING]

I'm not so sure why the shyness on sharing with people here what AFR and timing you use????

Specifically 8k to 10krpm @ 350kpa abs (or slightly below as your boost does not hold).

We both know the values, hell I even provided the knowledge for a 800+rwhp 12A! running a GT45R turbo using 36psi gauge boost, using C16 fuel only (and that is on our dyno's that read lower than yours) car trapped 167mph in a RX3 with a 28x9 tire. Only used 9000rpm though, bridge ported with 13B-RE inlet manifold and adapter plate.

I have a couple of customers who run C16 at similar mph and similar rwhp figures on just C16 but with 13B's and all are water injected to make the steel apex seals reliable long term.

AFR's in the 10's Timing in the single digits.

[RICE RACING]

What power have you made on 93 octane "true street set up" with that combination?

[RICE RACING]

O.K. !

E-Mail from Steve Just now:
lol i read through all of that. is he willing to actually vbox the car? seems as though he doesnt want to and just wants to be stubborn with the dyno numbers. ill send it down for him to test. they are only $500 for them i dont understand why he wouldnt just buy one.

^ This is reply from Steve (user name smg944) on here, you can find his contact on the fast fd thread I started. You can PM him, he will talk to you and arrange shipment of his VBOX unit to you so you can test this car for all of us.

I've done my bit!
Its up to you PFS man to prove me wrong and to post up some real data on this car.
Since I have gone out of my way to entertain you and the crowd here, you can do a bit for us and also tell us what it makes on 93 octane, as this is a little side line interest for lots of us to have genuine street cars that can be driven anywhere anytime and filled up at normal gas stations

*So do one test (as a quasi drag car)* C16 Q16 Jizz in the tank if you need too!!!!

*Do another test running street fuel* 93 octane ONLY!!!

100kmh to 200kmh (start lower pick any gear that fits your power band!)
Send me the file
Measure the weight of your customers car (I assume you have your own corner scales????) SEND ME THE FILE!!!!

I'll post up the results in the fast FD Thread

SIMPLE !

[forcefed7]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

I'm not so sure why the shyness on sharing with people here what AFR and timing you use????

Specifically 8k to 10krpm @ 350kpa abs (or slightly below as your boost does not hold).

We both know the values, hell I even provided the knowledge for a 800+rwhp 12A! running a GT45R turbo using 36psi gauge boost, using C16 fuel only (and that is on our dyno's that read lower than yours) car trapped 167mph in a RX3 with a 28x9 tire. Only used 9000rpm though, bridge ported with 13B-RE inlet manifold and adapter plate.

I have a couple of customers who run C16 at similar mph and similar rwhp figures on just C16 but with 13B's and all are water injected to make the steel apex seals reliable long term.

AFR's in the 10's Timing in the single digits.

I'm not being shy, but apparently we don't both know the numbers as mine are not the same as your. But honestly I don't care what other people "claim" to run for afr's, ignition timing, boost levels etc...there are too many variables, mix that with a bunch of half truths and you'll be really confused.

9000rpm is also not the same as 10-11k rpm. Water injection as good as it is (and I'm not being sarcastic) is not a real lubricant.

167mph is respectable, depending on the vehicle weight. At roughly 1800lbs it only take 640hp, but a full weight FD would need about 1060hp to trap the same mph.

Do you have any dyno graphs to share? Vehicle weight? How about the dyno graph for the GT45.

[RICE RACING]

A bit like yourself and anyone who is in this game (who develops these things) I don't post current details of anyone's set up nor my own, only old hat that is a few steps back from current best practice

So did you get a power figure on 93 oct????

p.s. the GT45 proved too small Ultimately for a 2 rotor, on pistons 4cyl I have used them on 1300bhp (real engine power) is not a problem! Rotary forget it.